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    Canonfire :: View topic - Psionics in Greyhawk (worrisome)
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    Psionics in Greyhawk (worrisome)
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 01, 2004
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    From: Nyrond

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    Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:30 pm  
    Psionics in Greyhawk (worrisome)

    Hello Everyone,

    Gawds, you guys are my haven from my party! Cool Okay, I'm about to add two new guys to my current band of misfits. One guy would like to play a character who has psionic powers. Have you guys 1) had a good experience with them using 3.5 and 2) how exactly would I incorporate psionics into the game background? I have never felt that psionics had a true home in Greyhawk. Thank you for your unlimited patience and advice. May your games never be run like mine!

    Exasperated,
    Dwarf from Nyrond
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    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
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    Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:56 pm  

    Well I have one psionic PC imc. He i a soulblade or something. It works out fine because that is the least psionic-rules demanding class in the book. The trouble with psionics in a standard GH campaign is treasure allocation and presenting interesting psionic challenges. If the first isn't afforded, the psionic must make his own 'magic items' as it were. Also a problem with psionic treasure is usability. If there is only one psionic PC then most likely only he/she will benefit from those items and thus will get a lion's share of loot since they are also alowed to use standard magic and mundane items whereas the other non-psionic PCs cannot have such variety. The second is essential too because without psionic challenges, the PC's existence in the world at large isn't as substantiated. Throw in some Githyanki or Mindflayers and then psionics is part of the setting. Living Greyhawk doesn't allow psionics IIRC, so its evident they cannot deal with the aforementioned issues either. If you want psionics in use, I'd almost reccomend a totally immersive psionic campaign where most if not all PC have it.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:16 pm  

    As for the "home" of psionics in GH, there isn't much explicitly. But I, along with many others, tend to associate it with Xan Yae and Zuoken (the physical and mental mastery stuff).

    In fact, in my campaign the monk class' supernatural abilities are essentially what the psionics of those faiths were able to reliably teach to their non gifted brethren.

    That said, I've never actually used psionics in 3e so that's all pretty theoretical.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 06, 2003
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    From: Unknown?

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    Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:12 pm  

    Have have always seen psionics as special power( based on the chances listed in the 1 ed players handbook) for a standard PC, and have not included a specific class of a psionic pc unless they were from a more psionic based world such as Dark Sun or Spelljammer. If a pc does role for psionics it becomes a blessing and a curse.
    Psionic are used in circumstances were you can explain the unexplainable.
    Paranormal activity, mind over matter, and quantum psionics for example.
    I have always treaded very carefully when using psionics during Greyhawk Game play. To me psionics are the ace up the sleeve for the divine and/or other creatures which have the talent. How else can a dm changele/control a pc who has achieved everything via thur strength, skill, magic, and/or luck.
    On Greyhawk psionics are very rarely encountered. If so only in epic level camps or as a tempory mind bending expierence.
    I have encorperated the information from the 1st ed. Player handbook, 1 st. ed. DM guide, Complete psionics Handbook, and The Will and the Way Handbook to developed a my own system to run psionics.

    Quote:
    Also a problem with psionic treasure is usability. If there is only one psionic PC then most likely only he/she will benefit from those items and thus will get a lion's share of loot since they are also alowed to use standard magic and mundane items whereas the other non-psionic PCs cannot have such variety.


    Psionicly based items are also very rare if not uniqe on Greyhawk. Therefore a dm should be able to manage treaure distribution.

    [/quote]
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 01, 2004
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    From: Nyrond

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    Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:17 pm  

    Hello All,

    You have all given me something to think about. Confused

    -Dwarf from Nyrond
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
    Posts: 538
    From: Germany

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    Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:25 am  

    Vormaerin wrote:
    As for the "home" of psionics in GH, there isn't much explicitly. But I, along with many others, tend to associate it with Xan Yae and Zuoken (the physical and mental mastery stuff).

    In fact, in my campaign the monk class' supernatural abilities are essentially what the psionics of those faiths were able to reliably teach to their non gifted brethren.

    That said, I've never actually used psionics in 3e so that's all pretty theoretical.


    There are some GH psionic NPCs in the 93' card set. For example Dural of the Iron Hills an 9th level Telepath belongs to "an elite sect of psionic dwarves identified by special tattoos." He pursued an evil elven psionicist into Ravenloft, but his sons Kelth of the Iron Hills (telepath 3) and Zander remain in Greyhawk.

    The inclusion of Githyanki and Illithids into the storyline is an easy way to create psioic challenges. The Dwarven issue of Dragon (#245) has the Caradhaker character kit for dwarves, whose story is that they got trained by a stranded gith(...yanki or zerai i don't quite remember) to fight illithids.

    Maldins Greyhawk site has a psionic school in the City of Greyhawk...
    Here's a link:
    http://melkot.com/locations/cogh/cogh.html

    I seem to remeber there was an adventure available on that site too but i can't find it.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 11, 2004
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    From: Cypress, CA

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    Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:26 am  

    Howdy,

    First off, I use Psionics as a different sort of magic; there's arcane, divine, and psionic. I found this eliminates the problems of compatability and interacting with psionic powers.

    Then, I treat Psions a bit like the flavor text from the PHB on sorcerers. They develop naturally, having this innate "gift". But they can either develop their potential on their own or undergo training to focus or expand their abilities.

    As a result of my view, Psions can come from pretty much any culture or location. They are not exactly common (like sorcerers), but people are aware of their existence.

    Psychic Warriors are about as common, though Wilders are pretty rare since I'm not a big fan of the class (and I'm the DM).

    The Soul Knife class I treat a lot like the Warmage class out of Complete Arcane. There are academies, monastaries, or training centers that produce members of this class. A Soul Knife is viewed with suspicion and a little fear, as pretty much only cultures with "questionable ethics" seem to want to train them.

    Soul Knife training can be had in (gasp) the Scarlet Brotherhood, and loyal citizens of the Brotherhood's satellite nations can apply for acceptance. Ahlissa also has a couple of small secretive monastaries that are run by the government, where the Knives train alongside spies and assassins.

    There is also an academy east of Greyhawk in the Cairn Hills, where applicants of almost any background are trained. The academy is sponsored and heavily influenced by those seeking to keep the peace and balance between sometimes hostile nations, so their Knives tend to be Lawful.

    Minor psionic items can be found here and there, but I tend to focus magic items to my PC's. Fighter gets a sword, wizard gets some scrolls, cleric gets a phylatchery, rogue gets some potions, and psion gets a psychic wand... that sort of thing. If any player wants to acquire specific items, they can commission them or make them themselves, depending on if they have more time or money or XP.

    Psionic monsters will focus on psionic characters in general. One party (5th level) ran through the downloaded "Manifesting: A Tale" adventure, and everyone loved it, despite it being "psionic-centric". But had the antagonist been an arcane caster, they would have had just as much fun.

    So far, I've only had three psionic characters in 3.0/3.5 games, but the 3.5 ones I feel are VASTLY more compatable with a "conventional" party.

    Of course, your mileage may vary, and restrictions may apply. Smile
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 06, 2003
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    From: Unknown?

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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:16 pm  

    [quote]I have never felt that psionics had a true home in Greyhawk.

    I dug this up after further thoughts and research thru the Complete psionic handbook.

    TSR Campaign World of Greyhawk.
    "Psionics presumably brougth to Oerth when an illithid spacecraft crashed on the planet ages ago.(Barrier Peaks?)"
    (I however suspect that there were other influences.).
    "Psionics are by no means common, but most people are aware of them.
    Considering them another type of mystic atrs."
    (I still reserve that most folk have very little knowledge of the existiance/understanding of psionics.)
    "Psionic guilds and secret associations can be found in magor cities."
    (This allows for a npc or a pc psion to be created for a developed storyline. I limit the amount of guilds and associations to regions instead of city loacation. To many psions in one place attracks other pisonic creatures and may lead to physical discomfort due to the mental noise/feedback created.)
    Master Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:15 am  

    Crashed ilithid spaceships is a bit too Spelljammer for mytaste. I prefer to see it as a very rare innate ability.

    I had a thought that the Emperor of the Celestial Empire might be psionic and might rule his sprawling dominion through a class of psionic mandarins (and perhaps an elite psionic imperial guard). It kinda takes the vaguely Chinese suggestion of the Celestial Empire (that was one of the names of the RW Chinese Empire) and heads for a fantasy leftfield with it. :)
    Divine magic would be outlawed, as it'd be a challenge to the emperor's power and the ruling philosophy of the empire - that excellence comes from within, that humans need to grasp their own destiny and do not require gods to stifle their ambitions. Arcane magic would be more accepted (as long as it doesn't disrupt the order of society as ordaned by the emperor), though wizards would be frowned upon, since magical ability should be innate rather than learned.

    P.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:42 am  

    starbreaker wrote:
    I dug this up after further thoughts and research thru the Complete psionic handbook.

    TSR Campaign World of Greyhawk.
    "Psionics presumably brougth to Oerth when an illithid spacecraft crashed on the planet ages ago.(Barrier Peaks?)"
    (I however suspect that there were other influences.).
    "Psionics are by no means common, but most people are aware of them.
    Considering them another type of mystic atrs."
    (I still reserve that most folk have very little knowledge of the existiance/understanding of psionics.)
    "Psionic guilds and secret associations can be found in magor cities."
    (This allows for a npc or a pc psion to be created for a developed storyline. I limit the amount of guilds and associations to regions instead of city loacation. To many psions in one place attracks other pisonic creatures and may lead to physical discomfort due to the mental noise/feedback created.)


    The Illithid angle works with the "Yellow Tome," which is, as far as I know, the leading non-religious text on psionics in Greyhawk. The "Yellow Tome" is discussed in a Dragon article (sorry, but I forget the issue) and is much sought after by the Illithids. I suppose this is "canon" by some measure.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:31 pm  

    The illithids once had a planes-spanning empire that was the largest the multiverse has ever seen and even threatened the eternal bloodwar. Hence, a crashed illithid ship isn't necessarily a spell-jammer thing. Illithid ships are not typically spaceships, but planar ships that travel using psyhic power.

    On another note, I think psionics in 3.5 are quite compatible with standard parties. In GH in particular, psionics as it was originally envisioned in 1e has developed and taken on a new role in the rules, which must be accounted for somehow. But I find little difficulty incorporating rules for the Expanded Psionics Handbook into GH. It certainly has a place in GH, especially if this is your own home campaign.

    I suggest first of all that add things in slowly. Always make sure you are familiar with a rules source before you allow it into your campaign. Once you've done that, decide which elements you like and which you don't. Don't just suddenly barage your PCs with psionic opponents and psionic items. Introduce them on a small scale at first and build from there. As others have suggested, psionic races like illithids can add a psionic theme to your campaign. These creatures are rare in the modern age of "default" D&D as well as in GH so make them likewise rare in their campaign unless you're willing to deal with unforeseen consequences. Make sure any players playing psionic characters understand that it is partially on a trial basis. In fact you may want to limit the party to only one character allowed to take a psionic class while the others may only take a few psionic feats. Ultimately I doubt you'll have a problem with it if you just add things in as you are prepared to do so, the same you would do with any new rules source.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:40 am  

    Thanael wrote:
    The inclusion of Githyanki and Illithids into the storyline is an easy way to create psioic challenges. The Dwarven issue of Dragon (#245) has the Caradhaker character kit for dwarves, whose story is that they got trained by a stranded gith(...yanki or zerai i don't quite remember) to fight illithids.

    Maldins Greyhawk site has a psionic school in the City of Greyhawk...
    Here's a link:
    http://melkot.com/locations/cogh/cogh.html

    I seem to remeber there was an adventure available on that site too but i can't find it.

    While I made the Broken Staff Tavern official (it is the connection to the secret school of psionics), Iq decided not to include my school in the official map and articles because the LG Campaign had not approved the use of psionics at that stage. You can indeed find info about it on my website, though. Once I finish the next batch of new pages to my site, I'll get back to that (and more) CoG pages. One of the upcoming new pages is about psionic Pirates of Gith in the Grinder (asteroid field orbiting Oerth, for those non-spelljamming DMs out there). The adventure you're referring to is a quickie involving a psionic hermit, and you'll find it on my Dreadwood page (use the Site Map page to instantly find and jump to any page on my site).

    Denis, aka "Maldin"
    ==============
    Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com/
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:22 pm  
    psionic races?

    I had posted this question in WotC's Greyhawk forums and had a few responses, but I'm curious what others think about the psionic races (from Expanded Psionics Handbook) in Greyhawk. I'm a fan of both psionics and Greyhawk, and the new psionic rules are much more balanced than those presented in the 3.o Psionics Handbook. In fact, the Expanded Psionics Handbook is what pushed me to convert to 3.5.

    REgarding psionics in general, the trick to incorporating psionics into Greyhawk is to not be afraid of including psionic NPCs, monsters, and treasure. One quick and dirty way of including psionic NPCs is with the Scarlet Brotherhood and the Splintered Mind from Dragon #281.

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20020623c

    Another way I included them is by changing the Black Brotherhood to be a psionic version of the Scarlet Brotherhood. These psions and psychic warriors parallel the Scarlet Brotherhood's monks just as the the Bakluni psions parallel Bakluni monks. I've also included psychic rogues and psychic assassins as Black Brotherhood agents to parallel the structural heirarchy within the Scarlet Brotherhood.

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723a

    I've even made loose associations with psionics and Tharizdun, which helps to explain how "clerics" of Tharizdun gain power without a distinct divine connection. They beleive their psionic talent was a gift bestowed upon them by the Dark One via their dreams. There are all sorts of tandem connections one could make with this concept including those of Tharizdun, The Elder Elemental Eye, aberrations, illithids, elans, giths, etc. Let your imagination run wild.

    Going back to psionic races, I've personally included elans as experiments conducted by Illithids in an attempt to create an enslaved army of altered humans, which inevitably made elans abberations. There are few elans left and they hold the secret to creating newer elans. They only share this secret with those who they feel are worthy of becoming elans. Most Elans hide in the amedio jungles and fight for survival against the Black Brotherhood, who see elans as the most perversely impure humans on Oerth.

    Half-giants I'm still trying to figure out. I have a few ideas including giants from the Crystalmist Mountains and some sort of enslavement/breeding long ago in the Suel empire. Basically, half-giants are a true-breeding, but endangered race.

    Dromites I've placed as a race from within the UnderOerth, but they have only recently made their presence known, which is a result for their wanderlust.

    Maenads and Xephs I'm still struggling with. I'm thinking Xephs might come from the far west beyond the Dry Steppes and the Plains of the Paynims. Maenads are the trickiest of all. I've toyed with having maenads as sea-faring groups similar to vikings, but I can't help but feel that's a rather weak idea for now.
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