<div>I was at Living Greyhawk's big Nyrond Interactive (a simultaneous multi-state event) yesterday. Sewarndt was slain by Lynwerd and Xenia. The bulk of the day was spent skirmishing in the streets of Rel Mord wresting the city from the Hextorites, the horde of demons and devils brought through Onyxgate, and Scarlet Brotherhood.
At the end of the night, after the city had been reclaimed, the two brothers were seen above the city fighting in a divine sphere. The king chopped Black Prince's head after Xenia helped with the black tentacles writhing around the king. Sewarndt's remaining "forces" broke and scattered before his head hit the ground in the city's streets.
While this is "only" Living Greyhawk, I thought I'd mention it because of the debate that was held last January about the notion of Sewarndt claiming Nyrond. And, Living Greyhawk has managed to dispose of another old Greyhawk NPC/personality. I have mixed feelings about that.
Anyway, something that probably should not have happened (the "refocusing" of Onyxgate and the fall of Nyrond) ended in an event that might have been best left to player characters (slaying Sewarndt and saving Nyrond).
Just a few thoughts I wanted to share. Happy gaming.</div>
_________________ Don (Greyson)
Last edited by Greyson on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:09 am; edited 2 times in total
What does "fighting in a divine sphere" mean? How could Lady Xenia Sallavarian help King Lynwerd? The Marklands suggested that she was a relatively powerless noblewoman. Is she a spell-caster of some sort?
With those questions posed, I agree that defeating Sewarndt and saving the kingdom should have been the PCs' roles. If it was my campaign, I'd probably complicate the PCs' goal by having impressed on them the necessity not to slay the royal prince without paying a severe consequence.
When I first heard news of Sewarndt's coup, I disliked how the development reportedly negated the successes built by the PCs over the previous year. Hearing of his relatively swift defeat, I think the lameness of the campaign development has been compounded because having turned Nyrond in this direction the campaign should have provided further opportunities for the PCs to suffer its ramifications, IMO.
As much as I hated the Nyrond storyline with Sewarndt they should have stuck to their guns longer. If I were going to committ to the Imperium idea it would last longer than a year I would hope. It seems obvious to me they buckled under popular opinion and did a quick fix of the setting, hence the interactive victory by Lynwerd and Xenia. Ah well, who is next?
I have to agree with alot that has been stated, I never liked the pace of Living Greyhawk and some of their ideas seem to be designed more to shock rather than encourage the players.
But since they decided to run the Nyrond coup idea, why not see what the ramifications of a coup would be for Nyrond, instead this development seems more an attempt to erase a failed and highly unpopular scenario premise IMO. However how the triad ended the storyline is also problematic, namely handing the players another fait accompli and killing off a valuable royal NPC, with Skotti gone at this pace in another couple years all the royal blood of GH will be spilt and GH will have to make do with generic "evil wizard" villians of the week types.
Other tidbits that worry me, SB as ally and puppet master for every foul event, why would the SB help Sewarndt or Sewarndt accept help from the SB, Sewarndt wanted to emulate his eastern kin who are paranoid about the SB and it is in the interest of the SB to keep Nyrond weak and divided.
Lady Xenia Sallavarian going from beautiful be unskilled noblewoman in the Marklands to 13th level bard warrior queen, PC bards should quit adventuring the real way to advance is to play your harp in the royal garden apparently?
The pace of LG development is determined by the pace of the campaign, which is strongly affected by the pace of advancement under the new rules set.
LG characters have a playspan of about three years, going from 1st to 16th level in that time. (Which is the new retirement level for the campaign.) This can be somewhat extended by the use of multiple characters or light play, but even that will generally not extend it much beyond five years.
Because of this, and because players like to complete a storyline with a specific character, most LG storylines are settling into a cycle that accommadates this. That means a new "villain", or at least a new focus, is going to be needed every three years. (It also is reflected in story arcs themselves being completely finished in the modules released for a single year, to avoid having them retire out from under people.)
And I want to stress, this is "settling into", it is by no means universal or absolute, but it is what more and more of the modules and plots will be looking like as the regional and meta-regional adminstrators come to understand, accept, and plan for this.
Compared to the formerly glacial pace of GH campaign development, this is obviously going to be shocking. But it is definitely not a flaw by any means. The LG campaign is active and advancing. And not just for a single group, but for the equivalent of 2-3,000 groups adventuring in over 20 active areas of the setting. That increases the pace of development even more.
The campaign is serving its players by this pace of development, not its observers and commentators. And that is how it should be. It may not all be smooth, or perfect, but it is definitely better than trying to preserve the setting under glass, or denying the active players in this specific campaign the ability to accomplish anything because outside observers don't want to see so much change.
Oh, and Keoland has plenty of royal blood left to spill. Whether the Triad intends to spill any or all of it is something you'd have to ask them.
<div class="MsoNormal">A divine sphere was essentially a device used to keep the player characters in “boxed text,” so they could not act to aid Lynwerd. In game terms, it was a magical sphere that only Lynwerd and Sewarndt could enter or leave, effectively preventing anyone or anything from interrupting their epic melee. And yes, Lady Xenia is a 13<sup>th</sup>-level bard in the campaign.</div> <div class="MsoNormal">Characters were given the chance to battle Sewardnt’s forces over the course of the last nine months. Nyrond had five regional adventures that took characters to different parts of the kingdom to fight the Hextorites and Scarlet Brotherhood and turn the tide in the favor of Lynwerd loyalists. The Interactive was a lot of fun and organized very well. But, as noted above, there should have been some way for the characters to directly defeat the Black Prince, instead of being helpless spectators. I also agree that this Nyrond story arc should have been longer – perhaps two years with a dozen adventures at least, so the feel and theme of the evil imperium could really be felt.</div> <div class="MsoNormal">Oh well. We shall see what happens.</div>
Well at least the "soap opera" headlines gets the LG some publicity with non-RPGAers. Otherwise this frenetic pace of plotting and story making would go unnoticed. Like the rest of the LG material.
As I am sure it will undoubtedly go unnoticed if Greyhawk ever gets official material down the road.
I dout there ever will be new WoG material from WotC. That is the whole point of LG, to keep those of us who love the setting from bitching while they shovel all the creative effort at some silly tripe like Eberon. Or worse some of the twaddle that passed for settings in second ed. It confounds the hell outta me. They know there is interest in the setting, but rather than support the brand, they give it to the RPGA who procedes to crater some of the most interesting parts (dout me? come watch Rary die. Bet ya it happens by the end of the Bright Desert story line they are running now). I really don't get the thinking here.
Given Samwise's explanation that "most LG storylines are settling into a cycle that accommodates" a three year cycle, I ask for folks to comment on this particular story-arc.
Was the Sewardnt coup and eventual defeat the start and culmination of a story-arc? From earlier discussions of the subject, I thought it was the evolution of a multi-year series of modules regarding PCs' service to King Lynwerd.
dout me? come watch Rary die. Bet ya it happens by the end of the Bright Desert story line they are running now). I really don't get the thinking here.
***Damn someone's rumbled me and uncovered the whole plot . Yup, we are running 11 rounds of adventures and 2 Origin Special events just to kill a single wizard...
Because of course all those 1st-15th level characters would stand *such* a good chance against a 23rd level wizard.
Perhaps swarm tactics?
Of course on a completely unrelated note I have often mused on the similarities between Rary and Robilar and Vecna and Kas...
Was the Sewardnt coup and eventual defeat the start and culmination of a story-arc? From earlier discussions of the subject, I thought it was the evolution of a multi-year series of modules regarding PCs' service to King Lynwerd.
Yes, MTG. The nine-month run of five regional adventures constitutes the entirety of the Sewarndt story arc in the Nyrond region. Now there is only "clean up" of Sewarndt's remaining hold outs left ofr player characters in the region. One of the Nyrond tirad members confirmed that Sewarndt is indeed gone.
John - Nyrond Triad wrote:
"... I know for certain that at least 3 notable NPCs have escaped and may return to trouble Nyrond in the future. None of these are the King's younger brother. He is quite dead, and you shall not see his return. (emphasis added)
Of course we are also missing two dukes, two counts, and most of the buildings in Rel Mord need repair - if not a total reconstruction."
It was mentioned earlier, and I agree with the sentiment - there is an increasing tendency for regions to out do each other with rapid and shocking events. I don't know if it is good or bad, just a trend.
I think it would have been more interesting to see Sewarndt appear somewhere in the former Great Kingdom. There he could peddle his cause and exert his influence to incite his host to vex Nyrond and install him has king. Or, maybe the Black Prince could establish his own nation, threatening his brother and engendering an intersting sibling rivalry in the Flanaess. _________________ Don (Greyson)
Well I am convinced the whole point of the Bright Desert Series is to inspire some foolish LG player to seize the Scorpion Crown and put it on. Or better yet, take it home and give it to the ruler of their home region to put on.
Now THAT'S entertainment!
(And yes, I would put it on if given the chance. I'm crazy that way.)
Greyson, those are great ideas about using Sewarndt in an interesting way. Sewarndt alive the United Kingdom of Ahlissa creates a serious threat to the Kingdom of Nyrond. Sewarndt in the Great Northern Kingdom of Aerdy might operate similarly or at least threaten Ahlissa's claims on Innspa and the County Blemu.
MTG
PS - I'd make Innspa a free city--playing off Nyrond and Ahlissa. It seems to create more interesting plots than cutting off Nyrond from Knurl.
Well I am convinced the whole point of the Bright Desert Series is to inspire some foolish LG player to seize the Scorpion Crown and put it on. Or better yet, take it home and give it to the ruler of their home region to put on.
Now THAT'S entertainment!
(And yes, I would put it on if given the chance. I'm crazy that way.)
No, no, no - you're getting mixed up with the module that offers the Head of Vecna on the AR.
A lot of how the meta-plot works is affected by how the regional Triads choose to run things. To be quite honest, I would have been surpised to hear about this kind of thing before the summer, because before then, I had never played out of region. When I did, I was stunned. I went to play at a cross-regional Yeomanry/BK con and I was baffled at how much the meta-game was force-fed to the PCs in Yeomanry and Sheldomar Valley mods. I felt like my character was constantly overshadowed by NPCs far more powerful than he was and that ultimately, his actions had no impact on the fate of the region whatsoever. Every module had been scripted out so that there was only one way to "win" the module, and that was by doing things the way the Triad wanted them done. This was anathema to me.
Here in the Bandit Kingdoms, our Triad has always been fairly good about allowing the PCs to control the direction of our region. If there's a BBEG making life difficult then the PCs get a chance to stop it in an interactive and if they fail, well tough luck. Better hide your holy symbols 'cuz Iuz is likely to take out retribution. An ogre named Torrock was one such villain. He was vanquished. Earl Aundurach of the Tangles and Hallorn was another. He survived because no one at the interactive was high enough level to take him on. We have yet to hear from him, but I'm sure we will in the future. I'm assistant to the Triad and we've been working very hard to make sure the PCs are always at the center of the action.
Of course, sometimes things are just out of your hands. For instance, when Jumper decided to assassinate Lord Mortoth, there really wasn't much the PCs could do. Yea, they were at the ball and they could have intervened, but no one was friends with Mortoth, and more to the point, no one wanted to step between him and an archmage.
Having played in the Yeomanry, I am less surprised that someone would use such a lame deus ex machina device as a "divine sphere" to prevent the PCs from having any effect on their region. The thing that annoys me about it is not that the PCs were not allowed to participate in fighting Sewarndt (it really was Lynwerd's battle after all). What gets to me is the fact that it seems, for all intents and purposes, the actions of the PCs had no effect on the outcome of the battle. I can imagine a scenario where the interactive is designed with Sewarndt having the upper hand (maybe higher level or better magic items, pre-cast buffs, etc.), and the success of parties at each APL determines whether Sewarndt is strengthened or weakened in some form or fashion, with the high-level characters influencing the battle more than others (e.g. your mission is to sunder Sewarndt's unhallowed altar from which he is drawing unholy energy). But from what I gather that didn't happen at all. The PCs just "occupied" the mooks while the real battle happened out of reach. That's not a good way to run a campaign IMHO.
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