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    Canonfire :: View topic - Iggwilv Background
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    Iggwilv Background
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:57 pm  
    Iggwilv Background

    No comments on Dragon #336?

    I don't recall any of the background from previous material.

    Iggwilv a former apprentice of Zagig Yragerne (in the middle of her career).
    The two of them binding Fraz-Urb'Luu together.
    Iggwilv stealing Zagig's Tome of Zyx, eventually turning it into The Demonomicon.
    Iuz formerly a pretty boy, and his current dual forms the result of the battle between Iggwilv and Graz'zt when he broke free of her control.

    The article cites her first recorded appearance as almost three centuries ago, as opposed to the 460 CY listed in Return of the Eight.
    Rot8 starts her timeline after the binding of Graz'zt. Dragon details events before that. She was originally from Ket but was driven out after plundering the Vault of Daoud. (Now we know how she got the Lantern).
    Forum Moderator

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    Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:05 pm  

    Well since you brought it up, I in fact approve of the article. Iggwilv's loe has been spread across many sources and many editions, I feel this is the best up to date account of her life with all previous canon considered. I also like that she came out of the Baklunish West (name is Hura). The article also supports my theory that Iggwilv may be the daughter of Baba Yaga of the Hut fame.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:31 pm  

    Iggwilv is probably not biologically Baba Yaga's daughter. Baba Yaga is known to have many "daughters", who are all young girls taken in and raised by her.
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    Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:48 pm  

    Thanks for the clarification Cebrion, yeah that's what I meant exactly. In fact in the original Dragon magazine adventure for the Dancing Hut she has both an evil and a good adopted daughter. Wink
    CF Admin

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    Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:37 pm  

    I found Gary's article very exciting--and unexpected. My only critique is with the illustrations. I'm unconvinced that these are accurate illustrations of her Eldritch Majesty, the Witchqueen Iggwilv. Similarly, I was pleased to see mention of her in a recent Dungeon, but I didn't find the illustration adequate to this previously unrepresented (graphically) legend.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:08 pm  

    I like the article greatly but did not like the "apprentice to Zagig" angle. Its like there is a Greyhawk feedback loop where everybody must be related back to somebody else. Why can't people be indepenently important without reference to some other personage? Just saying. Still. Great article.
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    Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:13 am  

    I agree with you there GVD. Too much relation can be a bad thing too.

    Just how DID Iggwilv get to the point of magical mastery? Zagig, Uh, yeah that's it! Next thing you know, Rary will be Azor-Alq's by-blow via Johydee, just because it would be an opportunity to drop some more names. Iggwilv would be much more interesting if there was more mystery surrounding how she gained her powers. Perhaps she actually did it by HERSELF, using means completely different and unrelated to those employed by the Mad Archmage. Or perhaps she learned a few things from Baba Yaga(a known master of planar and dimensional magic, among other things) that even Zagyg doesn't know. Now isn't that a novel idea! Even as Zagig's apprentice, I'd see Iggwilv already at a decent level of power and feigning lesser knowledge to ingratiate herself with Zagig. With that intent in mind, Iggwilv would use her charms to learn what she could from Zagig, and then finish by making off with whatever magical treasures of his she could cart away.

    As to Iuz, it seems very odd that he "suddenly" acquired his dual old man/bright red demon aspects as a result of the battle between his parents. I view Iuz's old man aspect as being representative of his age upon the mortal plane at the point of achieving divine status, and his bright red demonic form as being representative of his true cambion nature.

    I like the idea of Iuz having been fostered to a "northern Lord" when he was a youth(this being mentioned somewhere- the source eludes me). Of course Iuz would grow into a charismatic and handsome young man, and probably proceeded to gather his foster father's might into his own hands before murdering the old warlord. Makes for a nice story of Iuz's subtle rise to power in the north, with a little help from dear old Mum of course. Since achieving the status of divinity, Iuz's real alternate forms have become more static- old man/red demon. I see this as a better explanation of his true appearances than being the result of the battle between his parents.

    In any event, Iuz can choose to appear how he wants to.

    Other than that, I liked the treatment of the actual Demonomicon's contents, the info regarding the 6 copies, and the simple mention of the random number of true names of varyious powerful (and not so powerful) critters each copy contains.

    Nit-picking complaints aside, the Demonomicon series has been very good.
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    Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:17 am  

    Cebrion wrote:
    I like the idea of Iuz having been fostered to a "northern Lord" when he was a youth(this being mentioned somewhere- the source eludes me).


    And the source is..." WGR5 - Iuz the Evil"
    Kwint
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    Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:38 am  

    no mention of Iggy's sex change? (In the original tournament version of Lost caverns Iggy was a man).
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    Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:18 pm  

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....
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    Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:44 am  

    I remember reading something written by or paraphrased from EGG, in which he mentioned that Igwilv was active on many worlds and that on our world she is known as Louhi (of Kalevala fame). Among other things, this gives her the distiction of being the only canon Greyhawk character to appear on MST3K (The Day The Earth Froze episode).
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    GreySage

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    Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:37 am  

    While the Demonomicon article claimed Iggwilv was Zagig's apprentice, Dragon #333 (the Fraz-Urb'luu article) claimed the exact opposite - that Zagig originally learned demonology from Iggwilv.

    What I decided:

    Iggwilv was centuries old - perhaps older - at the time Zagig sought her out, determined to learn more about summoning and binding planar beings as part of his Great Work. While he doesn't have to have a connection to the Mother of Witches, it was certainly logical for him to seek knowledge from an expert. This would have been around 380 CY, after Zagig withdrew from the Society of Magi and was looking for other sources of knowledge, before he founded the Guild of Wizardry in 393.

    Iggwilv herself had learned demonology by summoning and binding demons - little ones at first, mere manes, then greater and greater entities. Ultimately she spent a century exploring the various layers of the Abyss, cataloguing its layers in her Demonomicon.

    Zagig sought her out and, as it happened, she was at that point fleeing from powerful sha'ir of Ket (who could follow her if she fled through the planes), and eager to take him up on his offer of safe harbor in Castle Greyhawk. The two stayed together for several years. To her delight, she saw that Zagig had a copy of the Tome of Zyx, although he did not yet have the knowledge required to fully decipher it. Iggwilv gave him that knowledge, and in return he taught her other things from his sizable library of lore.

    Something that went unrecorded by other scholars is that, in their time together, Zagig acquired a powerful affection toward Iggwilv. Whether or not she returned his feelings is doubtful, but what is undeniable is that when she abandoned Castle Greyhawk, the Tome of Zyx clutched in her hands, she was pregnant with Zagig's daughter, who she would come to name Drelzna.

    Cheesey? Kinda, but as long as you're assuming the two worked together in close quarters for a while, it seems as logical as the "Perrender nobleman" or Lerrek theory of Drelzna's parentage.

    When Zagig bound Iggwilv's son Iuz later on, it was much in vengence for Iuz having permitted Iggwilv's humiliation by Graz'zt and Drelzna's vampirization as any abstract loyalty to "the Balance."

    Worse yet, or better still, depending on your viewpoint, is my futher theory that Drelzna, while still alive, had a brief affair with a nobleman of House Cranden - their child would have been born around 407 CY. Five or so generations later, one of their descendents, a boy named Mordenkainen, would return to Greyhawk and learn of his illustrous distant cousin Zagig of the Yragerne branch of House Cranden, unaware that they are more closely related than he knew.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:58 pm  

    Interesting theory but does every notable figure within GH have to be related or run into each other growing up?

    The flanaess is a big place not everyone's parentage has to be modelled on a daytime soap opera Wink

    Just a thought...
    GreySage

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    Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:03 pm  

    Crag wrote:
    Interesting theory but does every notable figure within GH have to be related or run into each other growing up?


    Well, Zagyg, Heward, Mordenkainen, Tuerny, Johydee, and Bigby are already distantly related, officially (Zagyg, Heward, and Mordenkainen according to the Glossography, and the last four according to Ivid the Undying).

    In other news, yes. If it's fun.

    In still other words, yes, I know I'm being slightly obnoxious by cutting it that close. But oh well.
    Master Greytalker

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    Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:11 am  

    rasgon wrote:

    Well, Zagyg, Heward, Mordenkainen, Tuerny, Johydee, and Bigby are already distantly related, officially (Zagyg, Heward, and Mordenkainen according to the Glossography, and the last four according to Ivid the Undying).


    Well, Mordenkainen, Tuerny, Johydee and Bigby are all Crandens - but that's a big oak of a family tree.

    How Heward and Zagig fit in is less clear - though we know that Zagig was the son of a Despotrix of Hardby, who may have married a Cranden. In fact, given that Zagig's grandmother cemented her claim on the Throne of Wood by inviting an Aerdi garrison into the city, that's more than likely.

    P.
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    Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:06 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    Crag wrote:
    Interesting theory but does every notable figure within GH have to be related or run into each other growing up?


    Well, Zagyg, Heward, Mordenkainen, Tuerny, Johydee, and Bigby are already distantly related, officially (Zagyg, Heward, and Mordenkainen according to the Glossography, and the last four according to Ivid the Undying).

    . . .

    In still other words, yes, I know I'm being slightly obnoxious by cutting it that close. But oh well.


    I'm with Crag here. This is a feedback loop to end all feedback loops. GH as soap opera! GH needs to be less incestuous and less self-referential, looking instead to new vistas, IMO.
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    Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:33 pm  

    I like the feedback loop. The complexity ties in a few distinct eras and focuses on key players of both evil and good in the development of the setting. It also shows players that their heroes can be the begining middle or end of a great epic spanning storyline. IMC I am currently running a second generation storyline. For the players, knowing the relationships of their parental PCs and their past associations with NPCs good and bad, and thus those NPC's descendants/associates has increased everyone's feeling of belonging to the setting, not merely passing through it.
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