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    Canonfire :: View topic - Suel Emperors
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Suel Emperors
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:12 pm  
    Suel Emperors

    Other than Adzol (ne Ad-zol) is anyone aware of any other canon emperors of the Suel and where they are mentioned?

    Thanks! Smile
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    GVD
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
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    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:32 pm  

    How about Len Lakofka & Steve Wilson's "Seuloise [sic] History" in The Oerth Journal #1?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:56 pm  

    I had checked the timeline and it only mentions Adzol.
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    GVD
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    Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:22 pm  

    Dragon 230 mentions Inzhilem II, of the House Neheli-Artzin and Ubron Thrideen, of House Neheli...
    Kwint
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:24 pm  

    GVDammerung wrote:
    I had checked the timeline and it only mentions Adzol.


    It mentions a few others.

    1102 SD Elonzir-b-nar, the Prince of the house of Rhola (worshippers of Jascar and other Suloise deities of weal) is proclaimed the First Emperor of the Suel Empire. (-4414 CY)

    1804 SD Ollizin-b-Zabor, of the neutral house of Belzim takes the throne when the Prince of Rhola abdicates in his favor. (-3712 CY)

    2664 SD Succession to the throne of Argent var-Mengar, of the House of Neheli, worshippers of Lydia (-2852 CY)

    3188 SD Assassination of Argent var-Mengar XXI by unknown collaborators. The throne falls to the House of Zolax, worshippers of Beltar. (-2328 CY)

    3204 SD Zofar ad-Zol proclaims that there is inherent evil in the binding of Genies and commands that all of the Great Binders be turned over to him for destruction and release of the genies. Zofar collects five of the Binders, in addition to the Binder of the King. Houses Fruztii, Cruski, and Schnai violently oppose this move, causing the Suloise War of Revolution (3205 SD). (-2312 and -2313 CY)

    3235 SD Zelfed ad-Zol, the son of Zofar, brings the war to an end but does not gain the remaining Binders. (-2281 CY)

    4117 SD The Emperor Zeeckar attempts to strengthen his realm. He attempts to annihilate the Houses Ulmar and Opell in what he calls The War of Purity. These western houses have long intermarried with tribes to the west, and Zeeckar uses this as an excuse to tighten his grip on the empire. Both Houses ultimately flee the empire by traveling west over the Vast Ocean, where they pass out of memory. (-1399 CY)

    4411 SD The decay of the Suloise Empire into crime and corruption cannot be denied as Emperor Zinkman ad-Zol declares himself a God. He uses the power of the Binders to enforce his claim. (-1105 CY)

    4437 SD The House Schnai, after a short struggle, takes the throne of the Empire. Ovrung the First manages to restore the kingdom to a shadow of it's former self. (-1079 CY)

    5012 SD The Bakluni withdraw their ambassador from the Suloise Empire when Zunid ­ad-­Zol, the Prince of House Zolax is crowned Emperor of the Suel Peoples. (-­503 CY; this one is from the Baklunish timeline)
    GreySage

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    Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:11 pm  

    Inzhilem II lived around -2400 CY (3116 SD). Ubrond Thrideen became emperor immediately after Inzhilem II's death in -2354 CY (3171 SD).

    As far as I know, the only sources for early Suel history are:

    - Oerth Journal #1
    - Dragon #230, "Orbs of Dragonkind."
    - Dragon #241, "Legacy of the Suel Imperium."
    - Dragon #294, "Artifacts of Oerth." (Briefly describing the Suel elemental binders)
    - The Scarlet Brotherhood (mentions an Emperor Ad-Zol; presumedly this was Zunid ad-Zol, the last emperor of the Suloise and father of Zellifar ad-Zol, called "Zellif Ad-Zol" in The Scarlet Brotherhood).

    The Greychrondex puts the canonical (i.e., not OJ #1) references in chronological order.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:55 am  

    kwint wrote:
    Dragon 230 mentions Inzhilem II, of the House Neheli-Artzin and Ubron Thrideen, of House Neheli...
    Kwint


    Excellent! Thank you!
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    GVD
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    Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:58 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    It mentions a few others.


    Yike! Don't know how I missed these with a word search for emperor but thanks! This helps.
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    GVD
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    Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:55 am  

    [Hoping not to start another CanonWar] Just a quick note- those emperors listed exclusively in OJ1's Suloise Timeline aren't canon as the same person (Steve Wilson) who wrote it also wrote the GreyChrondex which uses only canon sources (see notes at the end of the GC) and the timeline has several entries which are not consistent with other canon sources IIRC...Now, that said, I'm not trying to imply they're not useful, just not canon, which may be irrelevant to GVD, the original poster...
    Kwint
    GreySage

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    Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:16 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    The Greychrondex puts the canonical (i.e., not OJ #1) references in chronological order.


    The OJ1 timeline occupies a strange "grey" area as far as the official canon goes. It's definitely not itself canon, but The Scarlet Brotherhood uses it as a source, and Roger Moore's Dragon articles took care to synch up with it (by putting Neheli emperors in the time Wilson and Lakofka said the House of Neheli held the throne). Grodog put a reference to the Binders from that timeline in the Artifacts of Greyhawk article he wrote for Dragon Magazine, although his artifacts are tied to the Princes of Elemental Evil instead of genie nobles (much better, in my opinion).

    On the other hand, there are elements of that timeline that obviously don't work at all with canonical history - the enslavement of the Oerids by the Suel, the Suel domination of the Baklunish (which seems unlikely, anyway), the whole Houses of Pursuit thing (which works, but is somewhat annoying), the two "lost" houses that departed over the "western ocean" (the Solnor?) thousands of years ago, the way it claimed Slerotin worked for Zellif ad-Zol and created the Great Rift; quite a lot of it should be thrown out.

    On the whole, the Suel history fits a lot better into current continuity than the OJ1 Flan or Baklunish histories, and it holds an important part in the history of the campaign (where the other histories don't). This doesn't mean we're bound to acknowledge it, of course, or even that it's good (it isn't great). What we can say about it is that elements have been canonized, and certain things can be determined with a reasonable amount of surety. Because The Scarlet Brotherhood mentions an Emperor Ad-Zol, we can presume this was Zunid ad-Zol, for example.
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    Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:01 pm  

    Why is it whenever I read about the emperors of the ancient Suel I am reminded of those old Zork games?

    I should track those down - a whole trove of Suel names. Happy
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:36 am  

    Lassiviren wrote:
    Why is it whenever I read about the emperors of the ancient Suel I am reminded of those old Zork games?

    I should track those down - a whole trove of Suel names. Happy


    Smile Yeah. I'm not too wild about those "timeline" names. Though the Dragon article names are pretty good, IMO.
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    GVD
    Master Greytalker

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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:31 pm  

    I have been thinking for sometime how to reconcile the OJ 1 timeline. It seems to me that the best way would be to have an in character critique... learned sage such and such of Greyhawk or Niole Dra or Rauxes. The distinguished scholar points out the good, the questionable and the just downright ridiculous. Then, gain permission from the original author to republish the article in the next OJ. If Rasgon is right as to his later acceptance that not all is accepted, and he might just approve. Or he might just write it.

    Either way, it is like many pieces found in these pages, good, enjoyable works that are not quite reconciled with the world at large. This piece may be the poster child for this phenomenon. This could be a convienant way to clean it all up and save the best parts in a format that fit neatly into nearly every campaign.
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