There have been several "Old Faith" threads of late and two broad viewpoints have emerged.
I was curious to know which view has the most support to date.
Druids and the "Old Faith":
1) The Old Faith is part of ancient Flan culture, Druids are servants of nature, not of particular nature gods, they draw their powers from their bond with the Oerth, all the druids are part of a mystery cult that centers around the worship of Beory; Obad Hai and Berei exemplify the two paths the druid can take in his or her calling. While Deities are respected, no druid would say "I am a druid of such and such god." One is simply a druid or not a druid.
2) The Old Faith isn't restrictive and encompasses all "nature deities" regardless of the cultural origin of their patron. The Druid's power come from their patron. One can be considered a druid of Ehlonna within the circle and viewed as a priest outside of it.
Want to thank all posters but especially Wolfling and Vormaerin who I paraphased and quoted above.
3. Neither of the above.
The Old Faith is intrinsically tied to the Flan peoples and cultures. It encompasses a set group of deities, with regional and modern variations. While druids encompass certain aspects of a generic pantheon worship, each druid has a direct connection to a specific patron deity as well. The structure of the Old Faith allows them to serve a specific deity while also carrying out various rituals to the other deities of the Old Faith pantheon as needed and without prejudice to their status.
I don't think he intended to imply that the Old Faith wasn't associated with the Flan culture in option 2. Rather, that druids could be associated with non Flan nature dieties and still part of the Circles. Given that, I'm not sure what the distinction between 2 and 3 would be. Unless #3 is saying the specific patron dieties are from within the ranks of the Flan dieties of the Old Faith only? ie, there are Druids of Beory, Druids of Berei, Druids of Obad Hai, etc all within the Old Faith. But not druids of the Vaelaeri or of Phyton or other non Old Faith dieties?
#3. The Old Faith is an artifact of Flan culture. It does not include all Flan gods, but concentrates on Obad-hai and Beory with some supplementary powers such as Pelor and Nerull. It is primarily theistic, rather than representing an abstract devotion to nature (which doesn't require any particular cultural background).
You can be a druid and not a member of the Old Faith (such druids are frequently loners and often not human)
Old Faith druids revere a number of Flan gods...Nerull, Pelor, Berei, Allitur
BUT a druid can ONLY gain powers directly from Beory/Oerth. So all druids are in effect priests of Beory ultimately.
Obad-Hai is the one exception to this rule for whatever reason. Obad-Hai is not part of the Old Faith. His worship is geographically and culturally different to those Flan tribes that are part of the Old Faith. His followers follow the Native American style flan such as the Rovers and Coltens Feodality and Tenh located in the north whilst the Old Faith is apparent in the celtic style Sheldomar.
If you are a priest of a nature god you are a cleric and draw spells from the cleric list (and should possibly choose the plant or animal domains to refelct your nature powers)
Equally there are no clerics of Beory.
The whole point to me is that druids gain very special abilities and have their own unique spell list due to their special bond with the powers of the Oerth. This is a bond no force other than the Oerth itself can grant. The plant and animal domains maybe reflect nature deities who are able to tap into the Oerth to grant their followers limited abilities but that is the extent of their link to the Oerth. I feel that the druid specific spell list means this makes most sense. If for example Ehlonna could grant both druid spells and cleric spells then surely she would grant both lists of spells to all her followers? The argument that the druid and cleric are different traditions within a number of nature faiths seems to contrived and tenuous.
I have been trying to find a missing peice of the Old Faith Lore.
Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere. The central diety of the Old Faith is Beory. We all agree on this. Obad-hai, Berei, and Ehlonna (if you accept her as Old Faith) are all in a way, a view with in the Old Faith. Ok, fine. Now this is where I start seaching for that missing peice of the Old Faith Lore. These supementary powers such as Pelor (NG), Allitur (LN), and Nerull (NE) all represent a different part or aspect of nature the Old Faith. But where is the CN deity. I have not found any refences to a CN Old Faith diety. Have I missed something? And if there is no CN diety, why has it been left out? If any one could help me with this I would be very thankful. This has been bugging me for a long time.
These supementary powers such as Pelor (NG), Allitur (LN), and Nerull (NE) all represent a different part or aspect of nature the Old Faith. But where is the CN deity. I have not found any refences to a CN Old Faith diety. Have I missed something? And if there is no CN diety, why has it been left out? If any one could help me with this I would be very thankful. This has been bugging me for a long time.
I wouldn't count Allitur among them. He's a Flan god, but from a different culture than the one that produced what is now called the Old Faith. Or he's too young to be Old. The same is true of Berei, Zodal, and Rao.
I have been trying to find a missing peice of the Old Faith Lore.
Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere. The central diety of the Old Faith is Beory. We all agree on this. Obad-hai, Berei, and Ehlonna (if you accept her as Old Faith) are all in a way, a view with in the Old Faith. Ok, fine. Now this is where I start seaching for that missing peice of the Old Faith Lore. These supementary powers such as Pelor (NG), Allitur (LN), and Nerull (NE) all represent a different part or aspect of nature the Old Faith. But where is the CN deity. I have not found any refences to a CN Old Faith diety. Have I missed something? And if there is no CN diety, why has it been left out? If any one could help me with this I would be very thankful. This has been bugging me for a long time.
In the Deitybase™, I used Red Fox from David Howery's "Ghost Dance" (DUNGEON® #32) as the CG/CN Flan deity to fill the hole of which you speak.
Lots of good points so far. I'd say kind #1 & #3, as follows:
The Old Faith is the Ancient Flan religion, and is pantheistic. All the Flan gods have a place within the Old Faith in how they are tied to nature mostly, but also in how they are tied to Flan culture.
Nerull- death, Beory- birth, Obad-hai- wildlands, Rao- peace & serenity(meditate by that babbling brook, try it, it's nice!), Berei- agriculture, Pelor- sun, Allitur- an old god of ethics & propriety as it pertains to Flan customs/worship which is based upon Flan law/religion(Allitur is the law-giver), Zodal- mercy, hope, benevolence(probably an ascended mortal, serves to temper the justice of Allitur and bring together the whole pantheon).
And then there is Mayaheine. She doesn't really fit at all unless you take her protective aspect and apply it to nature (can't really apply her protective aspect to Flan culture, as that is Allitur's job) but she can be a patron of Flan warriors who directly protect all things Flan in the mortal world. If lots of non-Flan also worship Mayaheine then so be it. If she is considered at all, Mayaheine should be considered to be a member of the Flan pantheon, and not just a member of some generic "god club". She was brought to Oerth specifically by a Flan god for a reason. She might be friendly with like-minded gods such as Heironeous, but she should be looking out for those she was brought forth to protect- worshipers of Flan gods (who sponsored her in the first place). In this role she would be quite palatable to me. As the Flan had already received a whoopin' from most of the migrating peoples, and the Rovers were in downward spiral, the Flan gods might not have been too keen on how their peeps had been treated recently, and so a protector was brought forth from elsewhere; an unknown who would set matter right, and without upsetting the delicate balance among the gods (and their agreements/schemes). Sounds good to me at least; better than what we have on her so far anyways.
As has been pointed out, while all Flan druids would pay their respects to each of the above deities, they may choose to follow the path of one of them in particular- it’s hard not to have favorites. True Neutral Flan druids might be prone to not following any particular deity, but that is fine because druids of the Old Faith get their power from the pantheon as a whole and not any one particular deity. Some Flan druids might favor the goals of a certain member of the pantheon, but they are by no means limited by that deity or rely on them for their powers. I imagine that non-Flan druids do not worship in a pantheistic way, being solely devoted to their chosen god. Non-Flan druids are completely reliant upon their deity of choice for their powers. This explanation on the source of druidical power might be one means of further differentiating between druids who are of the “Old Faith” and those who are not. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
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