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    Canonfire :: View topic - Nyrond's & North Kingdom's population
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    Nyrond's & North Kingdom's population
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 26, 2006
    Posts: 62
    From: Lecce, Italy

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    Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:13 am  
    Nyrond's & North Kingdom's population

    Hi guys!

    I'm working on a random generation on PC in the Flanaess, based upon a real stathistic method, and so I was reading the LGG to list the population of every nation, and... well... I found that both Nyrond and the NOrth Kingdom have 2,618,200 souls... is it possible? I don't think so... it must be some kind of errata...
    some advice?
    thanks
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    Sage of Canonfire

    Joined: Jun 28, 2001
    Posts: 179


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    Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:17 am  

    Looks like the editors made a cut and paste error.

    My db (I set the populations in our draft of the LGG) has the following:

    North Kingom: 3,920,000

    Nyrond: 4,165,000

    So yes, they are comparable. Roger Moore (or someone else) susbsequently edited our numbers.

    Why they felt the need to reduce them, I have no idea. But Nyrond is a bit larger than North Kingdom. Why they choose numbers accurate to the hundreds...well, now that's plain silly. ;-)

    Maybe 2.6 million North Kingdom and 2.7 million for Nyrond?

    -Gary
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:51 pm  

    So now we have evidence of editorial population genocide.

    Oh the humanity!
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 11, 2001
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    Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:54 pm  

    Nyrond also has better land - lots of river valleys...should have more folk, by rights.

    Never noticed that before though...good catch!
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
    Posts: 933
    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:01 pm  
    Re: Nyrond's & North Kingdom's population

    Eldiel wrote:
    I'm working on a random generation on PC in the Flanaess, based upon a real stathistic method....


    Eldiel, could you be looking for something like this? (I did all that number crunching last year. Wink )
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 26, 2006
    Posts: 62
    From: Lecce, Italy

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    Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:13 am  

    Quote:
    Eldiel, could you be looking for something like this? (I did all that number crunching last year. Wink )


    Thanks, it will be usefull! Happy

    But my idea is a bit different:

    The first step in my random generation is the place of birth, by a d100 roll, balanced to respect the population difference between the nations...

    Then I use the information of the LGG about the races inside the selected nation... (so the race is a random choice too)

    Third: subraces

    Fourth: other stuff...
    anyway thanks a lot!
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2003
    Posts: 138
    From: Midwood in Geoff

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    Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:56 am  

    Quote:
    The first step in my random generation is the place of birth, by a d100 roll, balanced to respect the population difference between the nations...


    Actually, didn't the '83 folio have this in it? I'll have to do some checking when I get off work, but I think it's already in there. It may be a little dated to that time period, but if you have access, it might be what you're looking for...
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
    Posts: 933
    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:39 pm  

    MichaelSandar wrote:
    Actually, didn't the '83 folio have this in it? I'll have to do some checking when I get off work, but I think it's already in there. It may be a little dated to that time period, but if you have access, it might be what you're looking for...


    The random birthplace table in the '83 boxed set was designed by Len Lakofka — which should tell you something about its statistical accuracy Wink — and first appeared in his "Leomund's Tiny Hut" column in DRAGON® #56 (I think). The problems with this table are that it is heavily weighted toward "good" nations, it underrepresents the populations of large nations like the Great Kingdom, and it excludes certain areas altogether. For instance, both Almor and the barbarian states have total populations of ~200,000, yet PCs are three times as likely to be born in Almor. Similarly, they are twice as likely to be born in Sterich — with a population of only 40,000! Forget about places like the Bandit Kingdoms or the Hold of the Sea Princes, though, as they aren't even included. The inaccuracies of this table were my impetus for creating my own Place of Birth table last year.

    Eldiel, are you saying that you make your players randomly roll their PCs' races? Confused
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 04, 2003
    Posts: 156
    From: Nyrond

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    Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:55 pm  

    There are some population figures here, if you can accept Living Greyhawk information...

    https://www.nyrond.org/turbine/page/nyr/gazetteer/

    Basically, both Nyrond and the North Kingdom are highly rural kingdoms with lower population densities than other areas have. Additionally, both took a major beating in the Greyhawk Wars and the events during that period further reducing their populations. Additionally, at least in the Living Greyhawk campaign, Nyrond has just come through a civil war.

    Compared to Medieval European standards Nyrond and the North Kingdom have extreamely small populations for their size. You'd have to either increase it by a large number, or assume that other than their few cities and a large number of small farming villages and/or farmsteads, the area is mostly unpopulated wilderness.
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