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    Canonfire :: View topic - Raoan Clerical Titles
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    Raoan Clerical Titles
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
    Posts: 933
    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:20 pm  
    Raoan Clerical Titles

    I'm working on an update to the Deitybase, and I've run into some confusion regarding the titles used by high-level clerics. I've correlated NPCs from various sources and tried to adapt their honorifics into AD&D®-style level titles. However, I've hit a wall when it comes to the faith of Rao. WG4 The Marklands refers to Canon Vendenn (Clr 13) and High Priest Durinken (Clr 15), while City of Greyhawk includes Patriarch Jerome Kazinskaia (Clr 19). Of course, there's also Canon Hazen (Clr 19). I'm looking to establish some sort of consistent usage. Any ideas?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:15 pm  

    My first thought was that a Canon is something like an archbishop, holding ecclesiatical (and in at least one case temporal) authority over a large and important diocese (In the case of Vendenn) or a number of dioceses (In the case of Hazen). I would then say that a Patriarch would be like a bishop, in charge of a single diocese. The problem of course is that Greyhawk would not be an unimportant diocese.

    How about if a Canon has ecclesiastical authority over a very large area like a nation? Greyhawk, while very important is a small state, geographically, and just a city-state, so somewhat more like a diocese than say all of Veluna or Furyondy.

    The problem now is that Vendenn is Canon of Chendl, while Hazen is Canon of Veluna, which seems to be inconsistent, one being a city the other being a nation. Unless the name in the title comes from what is technically the seat of ecclesiastical power, which we could say in the case of Hazen is Veluna City, thus Canon Hazen of Veluna, even though Hazen rules temporally from Mitrik. Then a Patriarch would be the ecclesiastical ruler of something like a diocese or archdiocese, so we have Patriarchs in Greyhawk, Mitrik, Willip, Dyvers, Devarnish and various other places.

    The High Priest thing I would just discount or take as interpretation on the part of the author because High Priest Durinken is also listed in Marklands as Canon Durinken of Rel Mord, which would make him the ecclesiastical ruler of the Church of Rao in Nyrond.

    Or maybe a High Priest is just the supreme priest in his or her particular temple so one could be the High Priest of Rao's temple in Rel Mord and also the Canon of Rel Mord.

    Did I leave any holes?
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

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    Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:20 pm  

    It could be that Patriarch is simply a generic honorific given to Jerome by the Directing Oligarchy rather than one he gained from those of his own faith. As far as the Raoans are concerned, Jerome is a canon.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 11, 2001
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    Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:23 am  

    In the home campaign I play in, we used the titles Arbiter and High Arbiter.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 51
    From: Wollongong, Australia

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    Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:03 pm  

    As used by EGG I think we can interpret that the tiles were used loosely. Case in point: the drow. Though unholy they had titles such as Canon(ess).
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
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    Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:47 am  

    That would be because any 7th level (IIRC) cleric is a canon(ess) just as any 4th level cleric was a priest(ess) and any 9th level or higher cleric was a high preist(ess). AD&D level titles.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 630
    From: on the way to Bellport

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    Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:57 pm  

    smillan_31's interpretation seems useful, and I like making the title Canon distinctively Raoan (and Velunan). Contra Theocrat (distinctively Palish) and Holy Censor (distinctively old Aerdy).

    Also, since Patriarch is a title of Earthly Orthodox churches, I interpreted its use in Greyhawk to indicate an old Oeridian religious usage.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:29 pm  

    mtg wrote:
    smillan_31's interpretation seems useful, and I like making the title Canon distinctively Raoan (and Velunan). Contra Theocrat (distinctively Palish) and Holy Censor (distinctively old Aerdy).

    Also, since Patriarch is a title of Earthly Orthodox churches, I interpreted its use in Greyhawk to indicate an old Oeridian religious usage.


    I just found a reference in the LGG to a canon in the Pholtan church today. The founder of the Grand Theocracy of Dimre in the Bandit Kingdoms was a "charismatic canon of a heretical apostate cult of Pholtus." Of course canon is in lower case so one could argue it was just being used in a non-traditional sense as a more generic, non-AD&D-class-title term (as Andydammit pointed out) for a high-ranking cleric by the author.

    IMC the title is used in all the lands of the former Great Kingdom by convention. But IMC all regional gods that could be co-opted by the conquerors were adopted into the Kingdom's official pantheon and their churches were under nominal control of the Holy Censor and the official pantheon's administrative offices. Even after the former conquered lands became independent they retained much of that structure.
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