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    Canonfire :: View topic - Creation Myths & Afterlife
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    Creation Myths & Afterlife
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:14 am  
    Creation Myths & Afterlife

    My players are expressing their frustration once again. One was researching the creation myths and afterlife of Greyhawk for his cleric of Pelor. He found very little satisfaction for his efforts (I know that as the GM it is my role to fill in the cracks of such things, yet I encourage my players to dig for the answers themselves). He complains that his role as a religious leader of his town is stunted by a lack of specificity in this area. He believes that he could better get into the heads of the common folk if he knew how they think. He voices his dislike of the fact that our groups CG ranger and LG paladin won't be sharing the afterlife together even though they share the same plane of existence in life and battle for the same good outcomes. This never occurred to me before partly because the PCs rarely die or show any concern about the afterlife anyway. He argues that in the Greek myth afterlife almost all good folk go to the same heaven, the Elysium Fields, so why doesn't Greyhawk have a similar notion so that good friends can stay together Question

    And then there is the lack of a solid creation myth, which he argues that the Forgotten Realms does have. I'm gonna let him write the creation myth as part of his priestly (prophet) duties. It may not be exact, but it will provide him with an added aspect of playing a scholarly cleric Exclamation

    As an aside, I am considering running an extreme variant of the "DiVinci Code" as a Greyhawk religious mystery. I haven't seen it, but one of my players insists that it could work and that it would be great for groups cleric and his many current concerns and efforts. Any thots on what the great "dark secret of the church" could be?

    GVD, I love your numerous works (my binder doesn't, but I do) especially in regards to Liam Wilspare. Any thots on a Greyhawk "DiVinci"? I know that we are not dealing with a renaissance era, but I would appreciate being directed to anyone who could fit the mold. Smile

    Thanks to any and all who reply. I look forward to your insights and fellowship.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:06 am  

    Hi

    As reguarding the creation myths... every race haveits creation myth... and every greater racial god is believed to be some kind of Prime Creator...

    anyway I will going to try to obtain some pages about these myths from a friend of mine (a GHer, obviously Laughing ) who once wrote the for our italian site about Greyhawk... (that is now unavailabe at the moment).. I could ask him for a translation in english... what do you think?

    ah... by the way... you could be interested in this discussion forum also:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2246

    Smile
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    GreySage

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    Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:33 am  
    Re: Creation Myths & Afterlife

    Skech wrote:
    He argues that in the Greek myth afterlife almost all good folk go to the same heaven, the Elysium Fields, so why doesn't Greyhawk have a similar notion so that good friends can stay together


    They can, if they worship the same deity (a CG and a LG character who both worship Pelor would end up in Pelor's realm in Elysium). You go to the realm of your god by default; alignment is only a concern if your alignment is abhorrent to the deity in question, or if you didn't worship any particular god in life.

    You could also argue that strong oerthly attachments trump alignment and even deity as well, so that if a LG and CG character really, really want to spend eternity together they can do so no matter what.

    I mean, if you guys want to decide that the gods of good set up a common "good" realm, you can, but the problem with that is that a lot of the good-aligned deities are unlikely to agree on much. I can't imagine Trithereon agreeing that the dead should have less choice on where they end up than they presently do. I can see him "liberating" souls from planes that they're unhappy in, but I can't see him agreeing that they should have to spend eternity with worshipers of St. Cuthbert. And I can't imagine Pholtus agreeing to allow his followers to dirty themselves by spending eternity with the worshipers of the other gods. There's a reason why the good planes are segregated between Law and Chaos, and that's because Law and Chaos don't get along. Law and Chaos are far more important in the pantheons of Oerth than they are in, say, Greek mythology.

    As for the da Vinci code, it could work this way.
    Master Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:05 am  

    I have a gnomish creation myth if you want that.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:46 pm  

    As far as creation myths, check out Races of Destiny and ZARUS - the greater god of humanity - its CANON. Happy See mention of Zarus below as well. Smile

    The (A)D&D afterlife is, IMO, screwed up and has been screwed up since the first attempt was made to conceptualize it.

    Planescape institutionalized the notion of Powers (deities), Proxies (divine servitors or agents), Petitioners (the dead) and Primes (the inhabitants of the Prime Material Plane) and then proceeded to create exceptions to these categories that all but swallowed them, to better allow for adventures on the Outer Planes. The trouble is the afterlife does not mesh well with a place to go adventuring.

    The Petitioners are the dead whose “souls” have moved on to either the plane matching their alignment or that of the deity they worshiped. They have no memory of their prior existence and if killed on the plane they were directed to, they merge with the plane or deity they worshiped.
    Of course, this definition raises more questions than it answers.

    From an eschatological standpoint, Planescape is a train wreck. It pays not to ask too many questions. Don’t expect consistency either.

    Of course, Planescape was its own setting and is then not “canon” to D&D more generally. However, a number of PS ideas have made it into subsequent canon. But not all. Despite its large number of drawbacks, Planescape is as close to a D&D afterlife “canon” as you are likely to find. So saying, Eberron, the Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Birthright and Mystara have all deviated from the Planescape “standard” to one degree or another. The Forgotten Realms even SWITCHED cosmologies from 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition. Nothing says that Greyhawk must adhere to the Planescape model.

    In this last wise, it is important to note that while the Planescape setting utilizes the concept of the Great Wheel of outer planes, it is not absolutely synonymous with the Great Wheel. The Great Wheel has been described in the Manual of the Planes and other sources before there was a Planescape. Planescape is then a gloss on the preexisting concept of the Great Wheel. This is important because Greyhawk’s cosmology is, because of the time of its creation, strongly associated with the Great Wheel cosmology. Both bear Gary Gygax’stamp. One can use the Great Wheel then without using Planescape, or only using those elements of Planescape that appeal.

    An almost completely different alternative is presented in the D&D stand alone setting Ghostwalk. The Ghostwalk afterlife is not the afterlife of Planescape nor of the Great Wheel. Ghostwalk postulates that when a character dies they pass into an Afterlife, which is its own level of existence (much as the Great Wheel is distinct from the Prime Material Plane). Beyond the Afterlife, and separated from it by the Veil of Souls, lies the True Afterlife about which very little is known and from which none have returned to tell the tale. Demi-humans do not pass into the True Afterlife but have their own cosmology, but interestingly dwarves play a role in guarding the Afterlife and True Afterlife.

    Of course, the big thing about the Ghostwalk cosmology is that, when your PC dies, they can come back as a ghost and continue to be played! They are not, however, undead in the usual sense of being evil and infused with negative energy from the Negative Energy Plane or what not. Rather, they are merely resisting the tug of the True Afterlife. They affect the material world around them by manifesting an ectoplasmic body for themselves. There are a lot more details but this sums up Ghostwalk in broad generalities.

    So, for your cosmology of the afterlife you have choices:

    1) Use the Great Wheel pre-Planescape;
    2) Use the Great Wheel as it is depicted in Planescape;
    3) Use the Great Wheel as it is presented in D&D 3rd Edition, with those elements of Planescape that have been rearticulated for 3X;
    4) Use a variant cosmology, other than the Great Wheel, such as those of Eberron, the Forgotten Realms etc.
    5) Use the Ghostwalk cosmology;
    6) Use a combination of the above as not all are mutually exclusive; or
    7) Use something completely different.

    There is precedent for each. IMC, I use a combination of Nos. 1, 3 and 5, informed by 2, and to which I add both my own creations and borrow from other (A)D&D publishers. The ultimate reality of my campaign is Ghostwalk, which is the GREAT SECRET, Da Vinci-like, of my game’s cosmology. The Great Wheel is but a cosmological waystation on the way to the True Afterlife. It is not the natural home of the souls of men after they die - that is the True Afterlife.

    Turning to the idea of a Greyhawk Di Vinci, there are two conflicting ideas. First, Di Vinci was a man of science in his time; he was not a theologian. The Di Vinci Code, however, is ultimately theologic. Dan Brown, author of the Di Vinci Code, bridges the two by having it that Da Vinci was one of grand masters of the Priory of Sion, which allegedly works to conceal that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had children, creating a holy bloodline that needs protecting.

    Greyhawk has its share of Di Vinci-like characters, in the sense that they are arguably men of science. Greyhawk has its share of theologians. No single Greyhawk character bridges the two in canon so as to be like unto Dan Brown’s Da Vinci, however. IMO, the mix of science and religion in Greyhawk is problematic because science is so small a part of Greyhawk canon. I think the better way to look at replicating the Da Vinci Code in Greyhawk is to 1) find a secret, 2) decide who wants it kept secret and 3) who might give it away.

    On the religious front, without really having thought in terms of the Di Vinci Code, Ghostwalk presents a secret that flies in the face of established Great Wheel theology and could work. Religions might be frantic that knowledge of the True Afterlife not get out.

    In a similar but much more sinister religious vein, the Far Realms does much the same - challenging the ultimate truth of the Great Wheel as the be all and end all of existence beyond existence. Now, the desire is twofold - to protect the “truth” of the Great Wheel and to protect the unwary from releasing the madness of the Far Realms.

    Closer to the Da Vinci Code, I’d think, would be the fate of Stratis from the Chainmail game set in extreme northwestern Oerik. Stratis was brother to Heironeous and Hextor and was killed and his artifacts scattered, recovery of which will grant the collector great power. Those churches might want Stratis covered up because a god was killed and because his artifacts promise godlike power. A game in which the clerics of Heironeous and Hextor cooperate? Could be fun.

    Speaking of which, take a look at Bastion of Faith, which describes a secret kept by the Church of Heironeous! This could be your Da Vinci Code or your Name of the Rose right there!

    Consider as well the 2E Guide to Hell that runs contra to Planescape and gives the latter’s most ardent fans hives. Lots of dark secrets, dark powers might want to see protected.

    From Races of Destiny in 3X comes the greater god of humanity Zarus. A lot of folks have a knee jerk reaction to Zarus and like to pretend he never was - too bad, so sad - He rocks! How would many faiths react to the reality of a single greater god of all humanity? Could be coverup time all around.

    On a more scientific front, Murlynd’s faith holds the secret of gunpowder/smokepowder/blasting powder. Losts of folks might want this covered up. Is CSL an albino and an assassin? Shocked Wink

    And so on.

    As for who protects the secret and might put the PCs on to it? Mordenkainen is the Flanaess’ master manipulator (neutral) with opposite numbers in Tenser (good) and Rary (evil). None of these are religious types, however, so that angle would be missing. Unless you were to add it. The reason Da Vinci worked so well for Dan Brown is because Da Vinci was a fascinating study in his own right, to which Brown added the fascination of the Holy Grail (the bloodline of Jesus in the book) and the neat mystery of the secret society Priory of Scion to which he attached Da Vinci, thus bridging the scientific to the religious. So, is Mordy, Tenser or Rary really religious and running a secret organization in part to protect some religious secret? Don’t seem like it to me but YMMV. They are also very much alive whereas Da Vinci was long dead by the time the Da Vinci Code’s action begins. So you may want a purely historic personage.

    Zagyg? Too obvious and too religious already IMO. But what you might want to do, and something I did in the Wizards Library submissions to Canonfire, was take one of Zagyg’s alias, of which there are seemingly countless, and make that a separate person. Now, you trade on Zagyg’s notoriety but avoid his overexposure. The PCs will automatically start out confused as a side benefit, imaging it is just a Zagyg alias.

    Queen Ahlissa or Johydee or other personages connected to artifacts? Again, you get the name recognition (ala Leonardo Da Vinci) but almost know known history, so you are free to do what you want.

    Its an interesting idea - the Greyhawk Code. Smile
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    GVD
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    Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:42 pm  

    Actually, PS is canon for D&D in general.
    Sigil appears in the Manual of the Planes, and references to events and characters from PS era Sigil appear in the Core Beliefs: Vecna article.
    As for "exceptions" to those categories, that is true only if those were the only categories. Since there were more, specifically both planar inhabitatants and planar "spiritual" beings, there are of course many "exceptions" to just those four categories.
    PS holds together quite well.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:57 pm  

    I have today gotten Dragon 350, which is a very meaty issue. It adds somewhat to the options I enumerated above. On p. 88 is introduced the "Oversoul." Essentially, the Oversoul is a firstmover, predating the gods, who are either "splinters" of the Oversoul or "intermediaries." Unlike the overpower Ao in the Realms, the Oversoul remains active, evolving and involved. Mortal souls are parts or further "splinters" from the Oversoul.

    The Oversoul thus is creation myth and alternative afterlife in one neat package. The concept, as explained in the article, is flexible/amorphous enough to be able to be turned in various ways. It is a very nicely written article.

    Of course, the Oversoul somewhat flies in the face of both the original Great Wheel cosmology, see 1E Manual of the Planes and other 1E materials, and the subsequent Planescaped version of 3X, as well as Planescape itself. It can, however, be easily reconciled with all of these and Ghostwalk. Rather than attempt to pick and choose between the optons and attempt to adhere to one "canon," that in fact does not exist, the author wisely chose to add another option and IMO a very good one. I can immediately imagine all sorts of interesting ways to use the Oversoul in a campaign, which to me say "good article."

    Of note, the Oversoul has a strong psionic bent as written. It is not overpowering, however, and the Oversoul can work as well when psionics are not emphasized in a campaign.
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    GVD
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    Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:50 am  

    Eldiel, thanks for the link.

    Rasgon, thanks for the comic. I really liked it. It actually helped.

    Anced_Math, please post the gnomish creation myth. I have a gnome player who saw this and is salvating for debate with the human cleric.

    GVD, thanks for all the thinking that you threw into your post. Thorough and over the top as always. Happy Man, you really but out the buffet for thot! I will look into the oversoul which may suit my evolving Flanaess setting. Regarding your suggestions...

    1) Use the Great Wheel as it is presented in D&D 3rd Edition, with those elements of Planescape that have been rearticulated for 3X;

    I will most likely stick to this,

    2) Use the Ghostwalk cosmology;

    and incorporate this, later (yes, I like Ghostwalk).

    Thanks to everyone.
    GreySage

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    Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:15 am  

    Gnomish Creation Myth

    "History is an illusion, the gods only a facade that hides a deeper Truth. Yet we can study this illusion, this facade, and sometimes glimpse something of the secrets beyond it. And when we can't study even the illusion, we make new illusions and study those instead."
    - Common gnomish disclaimer.

    In the beginning there was magic and Ulaa. Within Ulaa's womb were beryl and corundum, diamond and jet and the other species of precious stone. The most precious of these stones were the silmarils.

    Magic churned within Ulaa's womb and without it. Magic touched the silmarils and they awoke, becoming the gods and goddesses. They were Garl and Gelf, Baervan and Baravar, Flandal and Gaerdal, Segojan and Urdlen, Calladuran and Sheyanna, Caerani and Stalla, Malanna and Bryllanna. They brought life to the oerth, within and without it. Garl breathed on some precious stones, and they became the gnomes.

    Other gods formed from elsewhere. They wished to share the new world and its life, and to create their own races to live upon it. The gods met in council, and agreed to divide it fairly. Garl saw that there would be little left for his own people, so he arranged to trick some of the gods into being late for the meeting. So it was that Gruumsh, Kurtulmak, and Maglubiyet showed up very late, and got nothing.

    Part Two

    When Garl breathed on the first gnomes, his breath became a song. This was the first song ever to come from the mouth of a god. There were other songs, before the gods ever awoke, that nourished and sustained them in the womb of the oerth. These songs came from no mouth and no tongue; they were part of the One Song which is magic itself. The song of the earth, the song of the forests, and the song of the winds are all echoes of the One Song.

    Though the One Song nourished and finally woke the gods and goddesses from the sleep that preceded their birth, it also has the power to call them back. So it was with the Sisters: Sheyanna, Caerani and Stalla, Malanna and Bryllanna. The Brothers sang life into the core of the world, while the Sisters moved to the world's edges to sing life there. But at the edge of the world they heard the One Song more clearly than they ever had in the world's core, and they could do nothing but follow it further, and further, until they had disappeared beyond the edge of the universe itself.

    Of the Sisters, Garl loved Sheyanna most of all, and his brother Gelf loved Caerani. When they learned the Sisters had disappeared, both ran to the edge of the world, calling and singing to bring them back. "Sheyanna!" cried Garl, and "Caerani!" called Gelf.

    "They're too far away," said Garl, heartbroken. "It's useless."

    Some say that Gelf added his voice to Garl's, and together their voices were enough to draw back Sheyanna from the brink, but in the time that Gelf spent aiding Garl, his own love vanished forever. That was the last time the brothers cooperated in anything, for both desired Sheyanna after that, Gelf believing his own sacrifice made him deserve her more.

    Others say that when Garl sang a song to summon back Sheyanna, Gelf sang a countersong, and so she heard neither of them. Sheyanna vanished forever with the other Sisters, but Garl created an illusion of her to keep himself company, and it was only the illusion the brothers fought over after that.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:43 am  

    GVDammerung wrote:


    On a more scientific front, Murlynd’s faith holds the secret of gunpowder/smokepowder/blasting powder. Losts of folks might want this covered up. Is CSL an albino and an assassin? Shocked Wink

    Its an interesting idea - the Greyhawk Code. Smile


    No, I'm not. I'm just someone who's seen the horrific fates that befall fools who experiment with smokepowder-in the one percent of the time when it does anything more than fizzle when a match is put to it, it explodes like an out-of-control blast of fire from a red dragon, instantly vaporizing everything around it and leaving nothing but a smoking black pit the size of a leviathan whale behind. Hence the extreme dangers of gunpowder.

    Seriously though, I wrote up a little bit on the afterlife in my Greyhawk Travel Guide series:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=478

    That could come in handy if you want a rough outline of how the afterlife works. Note that there could just as easily be exceptions to the rule, such as with your LG and CG characters, and such things are decided by the greatest powers of all-you and your players, who have the power to subvert any and all rules published by anyone.

    My own personal creation myth as defined by the humans of the Flanaess is generally accepted that Beory, the Oerth Mother, was the feminine aspect of nuturing and care for the young, while the sun Pelor was the masculine aspect of devotion and courage that together brought many different gods to their side and destroyed the evil of the Dark Lord, Dread Tharizdun. (As an aside, Tharizdun is the ONLY god that I call the "Dark Lord" in my mythologies.)

    Beory and Pelor brought many gods to help them defeat and imprison the Dark Lord, where the evil one resides to this day. Boccob gave magic to the world, the conduit that allows mortals to connect with the divine and allow for intelligence to flourish in mortal creatures. The various gods, who had all had their own rivalries in ages past, would eventually continue their rivalries with their own races, but such was the way of the world.

    That's an extremely condensed version of a story told by many Flan elders (I pattern my Flan after the modern day First Nations of North America; in aboriginal culture, elders are the repository of wisdom and the storytellers who pass on oral lore from one generation to the next) and has been borrowed by many human religions. There may be variations on the creation myth, with different gods having different roles, but that's the way most humans of the Flanaess see things. It's different from the way other humans in other parts of the world see things, obviously.

    Demihumans, humanoids, giants and other sentient races all have their own myths as well, where their own gods take center stage. Rasgon's example of a gnomish creation myth is a fantastic example. Of course, demihumans and humanoids in other parts of the world, say, who live in the southlands, will have a different view of things, perhaps; halflings who are influenced by the Olman and live in Hepmonaland will obviously have a different background and take on the myths than halflings influenced by the Oeridians. This is only to be expected, as our real world shows.

    Finally, as for the "Greyhawk Code", there are already some interesting ideas posted. But what if you were to turn the situation around, so that there's a damn good reason for the secret being censored and hidden? Try subverting the traditional "Da Vinci Code" plot, and make the PCs see it from the Church's point of view, and make them the good guys.

    What possible secret could be hidden by the churches of the Flanaess?

    Simple:

    The secrets of the Dark Lord.

    The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun module has a scenario where the PCs can get equipment to descend into the deepest crypts of Tharizdun's temple and retrieve one of his most sacred tomes.

    I never understood why this was included; what sane person would deliberately unoerth secrets about the most evil being in the world? What possible good could come from the PCs discovering and releasing this information?

    Of course, some insane, twisted people, whether Tharizdun cultists or not, might be interested in getting their hands on these types of secrets, either out of insanity, nihilism, or simply being hungry for the power it holds. Of course, if this type of information gets out, it could spell disaster for the whole world!

    So you see, there's a damn good reason why the secrets are being censored by the church, whichever one it might be.

    As an interesting twist, make your players the ones who have to stop a misguided and/or evil Robert Langdon-type from uncovering these secrets before they fall into the wrong hands and bring catastrophe to the Oerth. This could be an interesting lesson in that sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie, and that, while it's always good to keep an open mind and be open to new experiences, and in short always be ready to push the boundaries of knowledge, we still need to be very careful what we do with that knowledge.

    Because if that knowledge about the Dark Lord got into the wrong hands...


    ...gulp...
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    GreySage

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    Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:16 pm  

    As far as what people actually believe about the afterlife goes:

    Old Faith: Humans have two souls, the oerth soul and the sky soul. The oerth soul travels back to Beory's womb to be reborn. The sky soul is judged by Allitur and given to either Nerull or Pelor, depending on their actions in life. Elves have spirits rather than souls, and they go elsewhere.

    Elven: The souls of the dead, if they are not overly weighted with sin, all travel to Arvanaith, watched over by Sehanine Moonbow. The souls of the wicked are claimed by demons.

    Rao: Good people are shepherded by Rao to the afterlife. Evil people are judged by Allitur and claimed by Nerull. Rao protects the unjudged from being claimed by Nerull before their time, but those who forsake the gods of good are not so protected. Zodal may intercede to protect even those who forsake the gods of good.

    Dwarven: The souls of the dead travel to the First Mountain, where they are watched over by Dumathoin, Keeper of Secrets Under the Mountain, or are reforged by Moradin and returned to the mortal world for rebirth (substitute Ulaa and Bleredd if desired).

    Gnomish: The souls of the dead travel to the center of the world, where they are watched over by Segojan Earthcrawler (substitute Ulaa or Calladuran Smoothhands, depending on the culture).

    Halfling: The dead travel to the underworld, where grim Urogalan watches over them. Other goddess, such as Yondalla or Ehlonna, may take their favorites to their own houses.

    Ancient Suel: The dead are judged by the gods of Law and distributed among the various courts of the gods. In the past, Beltar claimed all the dead, but Lendor has decreed that other gods and planar entities may claim souls if properly contracted to do so. Wee Jas has great interest in creating and enforcing these contracts.

    Classical Suel Imperium: The souls of the dead end up in the Outer Planes, which are ruled by numerous feuding entities of great power. We call some of these entities "gods." The weak-willed worship these gods out of superstitious fear of what awaits them in the afterlife, but this is not necessary for those with true mental strength.

    Post-Rain of Colorless Fire Suel: Wee Jas protect us from our hubris! We pray to you, great goddess of order, to spare our pitiful souls from damnation even after our people's terrible abuse of your gift of magic! Protect us from demons, great Jas, we beg you!

    Ancient Baklunish: The dead end up in a gray afterworld no matter what they do.

    Classical Baklunish: Some souls rise, others fall. Istus alone knows which will happen. The Suel are all destined to fall, however.

    Post-Invoked Devastation Baklunish: Al'Akbar will show us the path to redemption!

    Ancient Oeridian: The souls of the dead are escorted by Celestian to the heavens, where they join the ancestors in the stars. The wandering stars - including the sun and moons - are associated with the various gods, and those who dedicate themselves to a specific god may end up there instead.

    Classical Oeridian: Later astrologers opine that the various constellations are claimed by Law, Chaos, Good, Evil, or Balance, and one's actions in life determine which precinct of the sky one arrives in.

    Pholtus: Those who follow the narrow path of Pholtus in life travel to the heavens after their death to spend eternity as part of Pholtus' celestial order. Those who wandered from the narrow way are claimed by the forces of Chaos, and spend eternity buffeted by the winds like fallen leaves.

    Rhennee: As our people wander in life, so they wander in death, as incorporeal spirits which the vetha can at times contact.

    Fharlanghn: While most souls are escorted into the heavens by our brother Celestian, some souls particularly beloved by Fharlanghn choose to remain behind, as Fharlanghn himself did, to watch over and protect travelers.

    Modern Oeridian/Suel: The heavens are seen as a metaphor for the true afterlife, which is properly seen as a higher level of existence rather than the literal sky. However, as in the higher planes, so below, and astrologers have great insights as to the make-up of the afterlife. As the sky has four quarters, so do the higher worlds, claimed by the philosophical forces of Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos. Or, to put it more simply for the less educated among the peasantry, do as you're told and you end up in paradise; disobey, and fiends use your bowels to clean their teeth.
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    Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:49 pm  

    Livris Ominagarlen A Collection of Obscure Works Assembled by Alcium Azowin, Scholar


    Garl Glittergold is the oldest of Deities. He is our father, The Creator and known as The Great Smith. The legends surrounding him are legion, though many are untrue, or so overly exaggerated as to have little to do with the truth. Below I have transcribed may interesting passages from a variety of texts, to help young priests understand the wonder of being his servant. Part of this understanding is that, though we are his children and disciples, Garl considers us his friends and allies as well. He is less interested in bowing and praying than a good tale told well, a family saved through valor and wisdom, or a prank pulled off flawlessly. Below you will find how the people came to the Flaness, and how we, the gnomes came first.

    – High Priest of Garl and Creator of the "Multicolored Bubbling Belch Spell"
    Ghrishan Ron Dildored of the Lorridges.
    __________________________________________________________________


    Garl created the Gnomes. He is the gold skinned gnome with bright gems for eyes. As our father, he ensures that gnomes everywhere co-operate and work together.


    As you probably know, all races were created by their own Ancestor at the Celestial Forge on the plane of life. But some Ancestors can be tiresome and arguments were had over who should be the first to use the forge. Garl was not petty with arguments and whilst the bigger Ancestors were still shouting he slipped between them and reached the Forge first. Using the best materials and with the skill of a great smith, he forged and crafted the gnome races.

    On seeing the Gnomes the other Ancestors stopped their arguments and wanted to copy the great work that Garl had done. Each Ancestor, not being as skilled a smith as Garl, produced his race from the materials he thought best, but the results were not satisfactory. The lack of skill and poor choice of materials means that all the other races were created differently.

    Garl's younger siblings have taken up the cause of their brother's creations, and have each taken stewardship over some aspect of our lives. These deities are widely known, though little regarded outside of gnomish halls.

    What is little known, is that after all the other Gods had finished, Garl returned to the forge, and fashioned his brothers. In the creation of the Gnomes, Garl had used all of his best material, so he was left with only Gems and metals. As he stole into the forge, he was accompanied by three friends all Elders of the inner planes whom Garl had known since the Dawning. These friends were Ladjhan, Lord of the Aerial Hosts of Nish-Aaqu, designer of the Orignial Vortex; Uteutel, Proctor of Fire, Master Smith, and Steward of the City of Brass; and Dreshundhardicap, Solitary Wanderer of the Planes, Child of Shadow and Earth(or Shadows of the Earth). At the forge they labored for an age. When they finished they looked upon their work, in pride and astonishment.

    What was created exceeded all their expectations, for they had created four "children." Each held some of their parents qualities, though all were unique and indavidual. They were not as well suited to the Prime Material as the Gnomes though, due to their elemental heritage, and therefore their parents created for them a home and meeting hall at the Core of the inner planes, which magically touches all of the elemental planes at once, as well as the plane of Shadow. Each of their children were very different, but all had some of each parent, which they bestowed as their common gift. All had Garl's goodness and shall we say, his irascability; Ladjhan's commanding prescence and his understanding of the ways of hosts and Armies; Uteutel's love of the forge and understanding of the Politics of a city (Elder or otherwise, he is the only Elemental to ever rule a City of Effreeti); and Dreshundhardicap, who instilled in them all the a love of travel, a rogue's sensabilities, the Magic of Shadow, as well as the ability to travel the planes . They were not gods, but could be called Powers. In their own way they have all attracted a following, though more as ruler and ally, than as deity. None of their parents were ever interested in such aggrandizement. These children were:

    Valos, the first Iron Golem, and master of Elemental Magic. Unlike other Golems, Talos is not a mindless creation, but a thinking power that resides in a keep in the elemental planse of earth, making music on a lyre crafted by Garl himself, and writing jokes that only his siblings and Elementals seem to understand.. He is acting Ruler of the Court

    Milshtear, a Fiery Wind that rings with laughter as she trave;ls the prime material checking on her siblings, the gnomish race, by peering out of their fires. Of all the siblings, she enjoys her extended family the most, finding endless entertainment in the antics of Gnomish children. She also loves to travel with the Gnomes as they travel the Flaness.

    Greshalin, a child of metal, who looks like an earth elemental made solely of admantium and gems wearing a golden apron and wielding enormous hammers; a smith who wanders the planes searching for materials with which to forge his greatest creations.

    And finally:

    Sethaniel, the quite one. She seems most like Dresundhardican, the Solitary Wanderer, in that she keeps her own counsel, and moves around the planes serving her own ends. She seems to be a gnome made of shadow stuff, though this is unsure, for she is a lover of illusion and a master of the elemental. She is a mage and illusionist, so powerful that even here brothers are unsure of what her true appearance is. Only her "parents," are sure of this, and they do not seem inclined to speak. It is rumored that she was the first shadow dancer.

    Togeather they reside in The Court, the Keep created by their parents. Though none are Gnomes, they all feel kinship to their half brothers and sisters, and will aid them when they can. However, they all have existed for ages, and rarely get overly excited about the day to day affairs of Gnomes. They do enjoy their company though, and often have talented illusionists and entertainers visit, for a day or two, to liven up their seemingly endless home. On rare occasion, Garl or his family members may be in residence. Though the Court sometimes moves to the Golden Hills for a season, the entire family has visited the Court on occasion. As it stands, the Four have thousands of minions, mostly creatures of the Elemental Planes or the Plane of Shadows. There have even been a few Gnomes who have come to populate the Court.

    --from the "Scroll of the Earliest Day"

    By Nim Az'Tishan, Member of the Court of Kron

    __________________________________________________________


    The gods of the gnomes have a distinctive relationship with their followers. They place less emphasis on traditional veneration, and instead encourage gnomes to ask questions about the world. They do not claim omnipotence, or to be the most powerful beings in the multiverse. They do not make special claims of primacy over the gods of other races. Gnomes are taught that other gods, both good and bad do exist, and that the gnome gods are just one particular group of these beings.
    This teachings help foster a very tolerant attitude among gnomes about the beliefs of others. Gnomes do not proselytize when abroad or care much about the particular faith that others hold. This does not mean that they ignore evil acts, or are naive about religion. They are quite aware that evil faiths exist, and will not go along with actions that support these causes.

    This tolerance exists to the point that gnomes will place the gods of allies alongside their own gods as equals. Many gnomes even venerate the occasional human or elven god above others, with the notable exception that Garl Glittergold is the highest guardian of the gnomes themselves.

    Gnome priests are rarely a part of an extended heirarchy of clergymen. They don't give weekly sermons. They are occasionally asked to call on a group of youngsters, or other interested gnomes, to share their faith, but, for the most part they wait until a gnome comes to them. They then help the gnome with their troubles or questions as best as they can. Gnome communities pay special respect to advisors, but it is because of their service to the community and their wisdom, not because of their more direct connection to the gods.

    Because gnome communities are so small, and gnome villages tend to spread apart from each other in a wide area, each town usually constructs it's own shrine to the gods. The details differ greatly from town to town. In some towns, it may take the form of an ancient tree, carefully engraved with the symbols of gnome gods, while in another, the shrine may be a more traditional building and altar (which might share space with another public space, like a town hall.)

    – High Priest of Garl and Creator of the "Multicolored Bubbling Belch Spell"
    Ghrishan Ron Dildored of the Lorridges.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1077
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:57 pm  

    The Above is not so much an article as a collection of snipets collected by my character (Alcium) over the course of a three year campaign. I do not know what the purpose was, as we never got that far.

    I would edit but I passed my hand through a tablw saw this weekend ans typing is not easy.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2003
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    From: Calgary, AB, Canada

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    Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:20 pm  

    Skech,

    Paul Stromberg wrote some interesting creation myths for the Flan, Baklunish, Oeridian, and Suloise pantheons, which you can still download from this site...

    http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5878/wogtexts.html

    Rasgon, Anced Math... I like your respective takes! They may find their way into my game!

    I believe that there can be conflicting creation myths within ethnic groups and religions... it makes for a much richer campaign, IMO.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1077
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:07 pm  

    Rasgon, I like your gnome myth... did yu writw that yourself? If you combine that into thw Livris Omnigarlen, you start getting somwthing that looks like the Bible. Same or similar stories told in each gospel with the authors own predilictions layered ovwr events. It could start to look like a real/realistic religion if we keep this up.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

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    Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:15 pm  

    Anced_Math wrote:
    Rasgon, I like your gnome myth... did yu writw that yourself?


    Yes, although it was inspired by bits of Races of Stone, Monster Mythology, and Demihuman Deities.
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