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    Canonfire :: View topic - Where do the conjured critters come from?
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    Where do the conjured critters come from?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 29, 2004
    Posts: 39
    From: The Great Northwest

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    Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:58 pm  
    Where do the conjured critters come from?

    Hey Guys,

    I was wondering if anybody has a good answer to this. Specifically, the monster summon spells and conjure animal spells. The animal summoning spells clearly say than the animals are summoned from a local range if in the area.

    IMC I've kind of cheesed the question, cuttting many different answers:

    1-These are the magical manifestations of the creatures dreaming bodies. That disappear when they'die'(so far my favourite)
    2-These are teleported from afar ( I hate this one, not magically consistent- oxymoron)
    3-They're summoned from the surrounding environs ( don't like either)
    4-The DM card- Its Magic, it works, don't worry about it.

    It makes a difference in role-play if the druid conjures some lions to get slaughtered if they 'really' die. Likewise, mages role playing may try to gather the summoned animals parts if it dies(if the dead body stays), or sends a fantasticly rare creature to certain doom.

    I like that they don't 'really' die with the dreaming approach. IIRC one spell mentions that 'very high level wizards are known to summon adventurers' I have thought of usng this as a wicked twisty hook and adventure for low level experienced PCs.(If we get to playing again)

    Anyway, what do you guys think?

    Muscles
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 15, 2004
    Posts: 211


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    Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:25 pm  

    Hello Muscles,

    I recently posed this question on EN World. I'd direct you there but I can't find the thread.

    Basically, people said it was easier to say that the "summoned" monsters are really just generic *copies* of those creatures. They look real and they feel real, but they are really just in existance for the duration of the spell.

    Because, sure, it does seem a bit silly that such-and-such a creature is having a bath on the Outer Planes then, all-of-a-sudden, he is whisked away into service by a wizard on the Material Plane! What's more, a "summoned" creature is meant to act on the round it is summoned. A creature that's just been summoned out of its bath ain't gonna be fighting for at least a couple of rounds . . . not to mention that they're stark naked!

    Sure, when you're working with more powerful summon magic, like Gate for example, I'd definitely have the REAL THING arrive. For Summon Monster 1-9, however, I think the "making a copy" idea works well. Happy
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 674
    From: Bronx, NY

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    Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:07 pm  

    Creatures brought by the Summon Monster spells come from the outer planes. These are the actual physical bodies of the creatures. This is covered in the core rules.
    They disappear at the end of the spell, whether dead or alive, intact or dissected. (So no gathering components.) This is an aspect of both the spell and their extra-planar nature. (The summoning is temporary and has an attached "rubber band" effect that forces them back after the time expires.)
    Given that most everything on those lists don't take baths beyond jumping in a stream or something similar, or have all of their weapons as extensions of their bodies, the concept of them being unprepared is not particularly relevant. Call a demon and its weapon comes with it, whether it had put it aside for a moment to bathe in some gore or not.
    There was an option in one of the builder books, the magic users one I believe, for summoning specific creatures with each spell, and even traveling to an outer plane to equip your chosen critter with items for additional punch when you called them. But that was only an option.
    Kobold Pinata

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002
    Posts: 92
    From: Melbourne, Australia

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    Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:32 pm  

    Samwise wrote:
    There was an option in one of the builder books, the magic users one I believe, for summoning specific creatures with each spell, and even traveling to an outer plane to equip your chosen critter with items for additional punch when you called them. But that was only an option.

    Actually, even this is covered in the core rules as a variant in the DMG.
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1076
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:42 am  
    Summoned

    I have been thinking of changing this spell group all togeather. I have been considering using the option of the same creature returning again and again.

    It seems though, that the summoning spells do not make sense anyway. I am thinking that a summoned creature should be summoned from a place, the other plane whatever one that may be. They are not ready to go to work immediately, combat or otherwise. Possibly, the summoning should take along time, and the duration of the summon should be much longer. The whole, immediately arrive and fight seems to be a little silly

    No one froth at the mouth, but the description of Drizzt's Cat in the various FR books is the closest to reasonable that I have seen, and it is less than satisfactory.
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