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    Canonfire :: View topic - DMing the City of Greyhawk
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    DMing the City of Greyhawk
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    Adept Greytalker

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    From: brazil

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    Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:57 am  
    DMing the City of Greyhawk

    hi fellas!

    next game the pcs are going to GH city, and im so scare!

    the city is huge! all this seems so freat in there. i own the city of gh box, but i want to ask advice on what to read, as i have no time (and being honest, desire) to read all the box.

    any advice on how to run such a big city as the city of greyhawk, pre-GH wars? whats the important points for me to know, and tell the players?

    thanks
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:17 am  

    Well, it all depends... why the PC are going to GH City ?

    Then prepare the area they are to visit.

    If they come as tourists : just prepare the Green Dragon Inn to make it an unforgetable moment.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:45 am  

    Gallis makes a good point.

    If the PC's are just doing a one-off adventure in GH then its no more difficult than doing it in Hommlet. If, however, you're planning on basing the characters there long term, then I really would suggest reading the box.

    My suggestion is to have the PC's get opened up to the City in small packets. Start them off in the River or Foreigner Quarter with lodgings, jobs (if needed), and a few contacts. You can expand from these central locations into the Old City, Clerkburg, or the High Quarter.

    Depending on when you are setting you campaign, you might look for 'Greyhawk: The Adventure Begins', which updates the City to the immediate aftermath of the Wars.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:16 am  

    At first I tended to concentrate on the River Quarter and the Old City myself simply because the city is so huge, characterful and well detailed. Once my PC's were comfortable there, I started giving them stimuli to move on to the other quarters as organically as I could. I'd recommend developing one or two locations in each quarter and tailoring them to the agendas and interests of your PC's so they will be drawn to them. This will cut down on your work and let the party (and you) ease into the Free City...

    In my campaign the party bacame very fond of the Green Dragon also, getting into numerous brawls, drinking contests, dice games and all manner of trouble there. Ricard Damaris makes a good contact for mercenary work and depending on the era Robilar (who secretly owns the joint) is great for cameo appearances.

    For flavour I had the party arrive by river boat on the Selintan, where they had numerous encounters with the Rhenee. I really played up the smell of rotting fish and stale sweat at the docks, and then hit the party with the gate taxes! The resident party "walking armory" (there's always one, isn't there? Wink ) was almost reduced to penury by the Freesword Tax! Once they were through the River Gate they had to deal with the throngs of beggars as well (and the thieves hidden amongst them!). In the City of Greyhawk boxed set there is a great picture of the city from the point of view of the docks as well (I think the book in question was the Gem of the Flanaess).

    For atmosphere I try to play up the dinginess of the River Quarter and the Old City. In addition to the throngs of regular folk, there are beggars and rather more shifty sorts everywhere. Obvious signs of wealth should get the characters their purses cut at the very least.

    If you are getting lost in the detail I recommend establishing a particular mood and run your game "free-form" for a few sessions so your players can explore. If the material in the boxed set isn't enough to get you started, I'd recommend reading up on a few scenes from Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar series for a dark, edgier mood. For a more "standard" feel for a fantasy port, maybe read some Raymond E. Feist and look for the city of Krondor. Jimmy the Hand would have done well in Greyhawk City.

    Hope this helps.

    Damien.
    GreySage

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    Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:37 am  

    Done well? Happy

    Jimmy the Hand would have found a way to get rid of Nerof Gasgal and become mayor of Greyhawk himself! Laughing Laughing Laughing

    I like Feist's portrayal of Krondor as a port city too. Wink
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    Adept Greytalker

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    From: brazil

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    Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:22 am  

    thanks guys, i wil descreibe a little more for more advices:

    the party is large, all around 5-6 level:

    -human fighter (ex-furyondy soldier)
    -dwaven fighter
    -elven archer (from celene)
    -halfling thief (he is "attached" to the cleric)
    -human cleric of heironeous (is in charge of taking care of the thief. the thief is found of the group now, so he doesnt want to escape or something)
    -human bard
    -human mage
    -human thief (bakluni, a trader by profession)
    -human fighter

    they completed some quests in the near areas, and now are wondering. the bard suggested they should go to Greyhawk, to know the city. the human wizard hame two tomes (one about slaad history and one about protection against oozes, slimes and such), and he wonders if he could learn more about.

    the fighters are "just for the fun".



    so, given that, we play i think 2 o3 years before GH Wars.

    i liked the ideas so far, but others are very welcome to give their ideas too! ;)
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:40 pm  

    I tend to steal idea's from other campaigns and campaign settings. Forgotten Realms always had a different feel and style then GH but I enjoyed both settings. FR had a thing called "waterdeep and the north" (think it was FR1 or FR2?) It had random tables for building design and type for DMs that had to come up with a random building in waterdeep on the fly and I used it a lot in my campaigns set in any campaign setting. Also had some good suggestions for running city style campaigns.

    There was also a city of splendor boxed set that gave tips on running city based campaigns. I took those tips and applied them to any city based campaign I have run in any setting. It also gave an "adventurers quarter" which detailed a small part of the city and gave descriptions and floor plans for about 21 or 22 buildings in a quarter that PCs could live and interact in. I have changed the names around and used that quarter in many a campaign whatever the setting. The tavern and Inn floor plans and info were particularly helpful.

    I don't know if any of these are available to you or you would want to invest in them but I have found them really useful in city based campaigns just change things to fit the setting.

    From the times I have run a city of greyhawk based campaign

    Clerics will want to go to their temple and see what is available so have a good idea in mind before the PC's arrive of what you want available. Free healing and supplies? Help and support and under what conditions?

    Magic school: wizard PC's will make any excuse to go there. Some will want to join. What benefits if any do you want them to get? Can they buy/sell/trade stuff there? Can non member wizards trade/learn spells? Wizard PC's will want to know.

    Sages: players and PC's love them. Having a few rolled up and their area's of expertise already decided on will save you work later on. Once the PC's stumble on one sage they get in a habit of wanting to find more because information is valuable. For ease of the DM I suggest having a couple useful one's near where the PC's live and some of the more eccentric sages further away.

    Other then this I found players happy to be in a little part of a city and not wander. In fact I had to come up with NPC's and give a reason for players to want to go find them in order to get PC's to wander afield.

    As for the free city itself I have used it many times. In one campaign I put undermountain under it and changed the mad mage halaster to zagyg (not a deity but just a mad wizard who went into the underground when he went mad as mayor of the free city). It worked really well.


    One suggestion I can make after years of DMing.. if you are running a city campaign and need time to come up with some things... give the PC's a house. Have them inherit it, win it in a poker game, have it as a reward for some act, whatever. In all my years of DMing through who knows how many campaigns and for who knows how many players one thing has remained the same. In every case when PC's got a house they immediately stopped and went digging through books to buy furniture, look through rules for traps for those thieves out there they knew were coming, wizards looked through their spells to find things they could use to protect their rooms and they would spend as much time as possible trying to come up with the perfect floor plan for their home.

    Seriously they will spend hours setting up their PC's home. For best results make the house big enough for all the party members with a room or two to spare for any new characters. Giving them a house puts them in a part of the city of your choice and adds whole new avenues for plot hooks.

    They will also take childish delight setting their home up. They will also come up with all sorts of idea's as to what you will do to take their house away from them. You will get some good idea's this way

    Happy Evil Grin Idea
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:07 pm  

    Just remember that when the party get's into "THE BIG CITY"their going to go all over the place.The fighters will be looking for somewhere to spend their gold on new armor & weapons,the wizards will be looking the the nearest sage to do some research on his new book's,the theif will be looking for the gambling hall and so on. If you know your players just trust in your knowledge of what they might do.Because their going to act like kids in a candy store or toy store,going all in different directions :lol

    So just let them have their fun for the day and they might stir-up their own trouble and bingo! you have their next adventure Smile
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:56 pm  

    JohnJohn wrote:
    One suggestion I can make after years of DMing.. if you are running a city campaign and need time to come up with some things... give the PC's a house. Have them inherit it, win it in a poker game, have it as a reward for some act, whatever. In all my years of DMing through who knows how many campaigns and for who knows how many players one thing has remained the same. In every case when PC's got a house they immediately stopped and went digging through books to buy furniture, look through rules for traps for those thieves out there they knew were coming, wizards looked through their spells to find things they could use to protect their rooms and they would spend as much time as possible trying to come up with the perfect floor plan for their home.

    Seriously they will spend hours setting up their PC's home. For best results make the house big enough for all the party members with a room or two to spare for any new characters. Giving them a house puts them in a part of the city of your choice and adds whole new avenues for plot hooks.

    They will also take childish delight setting their home up. They will also come up with all sorts of idea's as to what you will do to take their house away from them. You will get some good idea's this way

    Happy Evil Grin Idea


    I completely agree with this idea, as I have done it myself. The house can be a ramshackle hovel, so long as it can be made to accommodate everyone. What it really serves to be is a base for the PCs. It not only provides a focal point for all other adventuring in the city, but personally invests them in the location. You may have noticed that players are usually very possessive and protective of those things that belong to their characters. Laughing

    Also, the location need not be a house. The PCs could also be guests of somebody. In my case, when the PCs were staying in Greyhawk City, those who were members of the Wizards' Guild stayed at the guild hall, clerics and paladins stayed at their respective temples(if possible), etc. This provided for lots of role-playing opportunities with those organizations and the personalities in them.
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
    CF Admin

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    Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:03 pm  

    Some of Gary's ideas and advice @ http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_geomorphs.html#city may be useful :D
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    GreySage

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    Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:08 pm  

    Very nice link, Grodog -- you hound! Laughing

    Thanks for sharing. Wink
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:50 pm  
    Another Neat Link

    I thought this was a neat link that I stumbled on one day that might help someone.

    http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/greyhawk.html#cogbu

    Using the stairs seems intriguing.
    GreySage

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    Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:45 pm  

    Very nice indeed, Raymond, thanks! Happy
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:59 pm  
    Greyhawk

    Rossik, I think you'll quickly find that the City of Greyhawk will keep you and your PCs occupied for years if you want it to. Everyone's suggestion are right on, but I would also recommend you use the card stock adventures that are in the City of Greyhwak boxed set as hooks for further adventures. The cards have the basics you need to run a quick side adventure or with a little work you can turn them into several sessions. I have used the cards for years to get PCs into trouble in the city and in areas hundreds of miles outside of the city as well. Good luck!
    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:59 am  

    thanks guys!

    about the house, i used to do that in my early days of DM, and it works for sure!

    the cards are very good, and i've used all that were not GH city (the surrounds ones).
    i will study all this and will let you know how it goes :D
    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:35 pm  

    oh, one more thing!

    we are playing at 579, 3 years before the GH Wars.

    any tips to "set the mood"?
    also, what do you think the "important npc" (such as mordy, robilar, etc) would be doing by this pre-war time? (more like Greyhawk City "important" NPC, as the adventure wil be set in GH city)

    whats your opinion?
    CF Admin

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    Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:26 pm  

    For my CoG, I've always ripped off good contents from my favorite city-related RPG supplements:


    • Lankhmar City of Adventure (TSR)
    • Thieves World (Chaosium, boxed set)
    • The Free City of Haven (plus supplements, by Gamelords; various Thieves Guild materials would also fit in nicely)
    • Cities, Tulan, Carse, Towns of the Outlands (Mikdemia Press but Cities, Tulan, and Carse were also reprinted by Chaosium)
    • Bard's Gate (Necromancer Games)
    • Marienburg and Warharmmer City (Games Workshop)
    • FR1 Waterdeep
    • Citybook series (Blade/Flying Buffalo)
    • "Barnacus: City in Peril" (Dragon Magazine #80)
    • Greyhawk: The Adventure Begins (WotC)
    • Pavis and Big Rubble (Chaosium)

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    GreySage

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    Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:07 am  

    Excellent list Grodog, thanks for the suggestion! Happy
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    Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:54 am  

    Rossik, a couple of suggestions for NPC interactions for your campaign...

    I'd make heavy use of Otiluke for your mage npc particularly if it is going to be a long campaign. Get some real pathos going for him, whether it be good or ill, and his demise in 584 CY will be that much more poignant.
    Tobin Potriades, the senior tutor at the University of Magical Arts, makes for an entertaining encounter with his deafness and near blindness- and his michievous changecat familiar!

    For your Fuyondian warrior I would suggest a few encounters with the doddering old Furyondian ambassador, Aaron Strachan (secretly Elskan Saramade, a 16th level mage and quite the master of intrigue). This could set up a campaign arc in Furyondy quite easily and perhaps eventually lead to the Knights of the Hart if the player is so inclined.

    For the Baklunish thief I would recommend Arkalan Sammal, a famous sage and brother of Rary, Archmage of Ket. Perhaps shared heritage could lead to an association and eventual introduction to the great mage himself. This would tie in very nicely with the Otiluke angle, as you could foreshadow the antipathy between the two men.

    For the halfling thief, I'd use the old gnome Grimmri Fisher of the Fellowship of the Torch for comic relief and misguided mentoring. The Fellowship have been a great ally party for my game. I'd also recommend the halfling thief Allentar Grassfield (detailed in Vecna Lives), the henchman and agent of Drawmij for an intro to guild politics (it doesn't say anywhere that Allentar is a guild member but I reckon it would be likely).

    For your other fighter, I would recommend Varmai Zendehei, a smart and capable agent of the Powers That Be for Furyondy and Veluna. She is headed for a nasty turn in the years to come, with plenty of very juicy story arcs readymade for you if she becomes a good and trusted friend of the party. This could tie in with your Furyondian fighter too.

    The Constable Derider Fanshen of Pelor could be a good contact for the priest of Hieroneous, as she is involved in law and order (which your cleric seems to have a thing for as well). If the party sticks around til 581 I would also recommend Sir Artur Jakartai and Lady Valdaresse Sharn of the Knights of Holy Shielding- paragons of the School of Butt-Kicking for Goodness!

    The Star of Celene and the half-elf bard (Pateris?) that runs it would work for your elven archer. That way they can meet Melf on one of his visits to the city and Kirilarian Allavesse from the Fellowship of the Torch. This would set up a Knight of Luna story arc for you. The Nyrondese ambassador, another grey elf called Fioranna Aielestriel stays at the Star as well and she could open up stories in Nyrond and the Iron League.

    The Bard would do well at the Opera House. Their top-billing singer is a very special sort [SPOILER! She is a Greyhawk Dragon! END SPOILER] who could provide intoductions to Otto of the Circle of Eight and Mizaab Zaalen of the Falcon Series, who shares her heritage.

    Sadly I'm stumped for a dwarf contact. Perhaps the Oligarch and Inspector of Taxes Glodreddi Bakkannin? He'd be useful as an example of the Free City's runaway bureaucracy and corruption if nothing else. Or maybe someone from the dwarven enclaves of Krakast and Dumadan? I think one may be detailed in From the Ashes.

    Hope this helps...

    Damien.
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    Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:51 am  

    grodog wrote:
    For my CoG, I've always ripped off good contents from my favorite city-related RPG supplements:


    • The Free City of Haven (plus supplements, by Gamelords; various Thieves Guild materials would also fit in nicely)


    I miss the Thieves Guild books. I have the first 7 but am missing the page in the main rules for figuring out starting character skill points. But I have both Heligor's and Magic Books and Scrolls in my Version of Thornward. As well as several other places and NPC's from those great adventures. I've also used the Dukes Dress Ball in various forms for both D&D and Castle Falkenstien.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:08 pm  

    loved the ideas! im going to use some of them, thanks guys

    i have a question about otiluke: who are the president of the wizard university (or something like this)- otiluke or Kieren Jalucian?
    im a bit confused about this?

    also, any picture of him?
    GreySage

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    Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:23 pm  

    Otiluke was president of the Society of Magi. Kieren Jalucian was master of the Guild of Wizardry and headmaster of the University of Magical Arts. After Otiluke's death, Kieren temporarily became president of the Society of Magi as well.

    Otiluke is the short, clean-shaven man with the big nose standing between Rary and Jallarzi (on the far right) in this picture. He looks something like Eric Idle, I think.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:17 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    Otiluke was president of the Society of Magi. Kieren Jalucian was master of the Guild of Wizardry and headmaster of the University of Magical Arts. After Otiluke's death, Kieren temporarily became president of the Society of Magi as well.

    Otiluke is the short, clean-shaven man with the big nose standing between Rary and Jallarzi (on the far right) in this picture. He looks something like Eric Idle, I think.


    thanks, rasgon!

    i
    (boy, you cant tell he have a thin beard and a black hair by this picture!)

    i may even use this picture:
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:34 pm  

    Damien wrote:
    Sadly I'm stumped for a dwarf contact. Perhaps the Oligarch and Inspector of Taxes Glodreddi Bakkannin? He'd be useful as an example of the Free City's runaway bureaucracy and corruption if nothing else. Or maybe someone from the dwarven enclaves of Krakast and Dumadan? I think one may be detailed in From the Ashes.


    I say go with Lord Obmi. Evil Grin
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    Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:04 pm  

    vonbek wrote:
    I miss the Thieves Guild books. I have the first 7 but am missing the page in the main rules for figuring out starting character skill points.


    I have a complete run of Thieves Guild stuff, vonbek: shoot me an email and I'll scan the missing page for you sometime :D
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