This came up in another topic and after a little thought I think it makes a good topic. Would the various faiths of Greyhawk have any sort of international organization akin to the Roman Catholic church or other faiths of our own history. It is certainly the case with the Baklunish faiths with the Grand Mufti in Tusmit. I could see the more Lawful faiths having some sort of central authority with some having intricate bureaucracies that would at least dictate temporal operations over the entire faith. So in the Zlichus discussion they could act as a banking house anywhere that the religion had influence. I could even see the more chaotic faiths having some looser form of organization at least to help out the various churches across the Flanesse and to help spread the faith to those areas where they have little to know influence. This would open a whole new level of Intrigue to a game as you now not only have the competing nations but also the churches themselves trying to not only bring as many nations under their sway but also prevent other religions doing the same. It would also make the alliances between various faiths much more important as the cooperation between then would make it a huge advantage. So Zilchus has the money and Cuthburt has the Military might to impose thier worldview.
I could see the faith of St. Cuthbert following a model similar to the Catholic Church with its three orders: the Chapeaux, the Stars, and the Billets. In particular, I could see the Stars forming the background of the church heirarchy with their focus on doctrinal purity within the ranks. The current Pope had the job of overseeing doctrine for the church before he became the Pope.
I like churches to be more about dogma and nationalism than about gods. Rather than each deity having their own church hierarchy, Nyrond has a state religion that honors a number of different deities, for example.
I believe that there has been some traditional rivalry between the churches of Hieroneous in Furyondy and the Shield Lands. I think one might be called the Church of the Archpaladin and the other the Church of Holy Shielding and the rivalry echoes and magnifies the traditional political tensions between those two nations prior to the Greyhawk Wars...
It was a early major campaign theme in my game. I even threw a doctrinal schism in there with the Shield lander faith believing in a form of reincarnation whereas the Furyondians considered the idea to be heresy.
I believe that there has been some traditional rivalry between the churches of Hieroneous in Furyondy and the Shield Lands. I think one might be called the Church of the Archpaladin and the other the Church of Holy Shielding and the rivalry echoes and magnifies the traditional political tensions between those two nations prior to the Greyhawk Wars...
It was a early major campaign theme in my game. I even threw a doctrinal schism in there with the Shield lander faith believing in a form of reincarnation whereas the Furyondians considered the idea to be heresy.
Hope this is helpful,
Damien.
But that still would not stop them from having cross state organization. There were a lot of different sects and schisms with the Roman Catholic, protestant and Muslim religions throughout history and yet there was still the bigger over all organization. What you suggest just adds yet another level of intrigue within the organization itself. Which I think is cool.
I assume that under the GK there was a state religion made up of "official" churches and cults with an established hierarchy. Not to say that there were no unofficial cults, they just weren't part of the system and didn't have the benefit of being supported (to one degree or another) by the state. I imagine something like the Romans had, with a body similar to the College of Pontiffs, and the Holy Censor as Pontifex Maximus. As the GK expanded, new gods and their churches were either brought into the state religious organization, or not. I have a hard time imagining the Cuthbertines being brought into the state religion of the GK, so I imagine Veluna caused all kinds of trouble during the time the GK ruled them. After Furyondy, Nyrond and everyone else rebelled, I think that much of that structure would have remained, although I'm sure some schisms occurred over time in some church organizations, with the "mother churches" in the GK being disregarded, some might not have full-on schisms, but "minor disagreements" in hierarchy and dogma, but some others would remain intact. I think the situation probably came to a head once the Ivids gave the Holy Censoriate to Hextor, and this saw most church organizations outside the GK break away from what they would see as the puppet pontiffs running their churches inside.
I personally have been thinking of reorganizing the faiths myself. Instead of one church per god there would be churches that worship multiple gods. I'm not sure exactly how these will be organized, however the Great Kingdom will certainly have a state church as smillan_31 said.
The Church of Aerdy
Once the largest church in the Flanaess, based on the Prophesies of Johydee, the Book of Creation, and several other holy texts, with their supreme cleric the Censor of Medegia. Schismed during the Turmoil Between Crowns, when Nyrond refused to honor the Holy Censor and vested the Prelate of Almor with the supreme power of the western church. The Church of Aerdy recognizes twelve gods as supreme, mirroring the court of the Overking, though which twelve gods these are varies. The Pale's church is another schism, having split from the Church of Aerdy when the priests of Pholtus were removed from the Holy Censorship.
Since the Greyhawk Wars, both the Nyrondel and Aerdian churches have been in turmoil, with the prelate of Almor in exile and the Great Kingdom's faith split between a version with Hextor as the supreme deity, headed by Grenell in the North, and a version with Zilchus reestablished as divine Overking, headed by Xavener in the south.
The Church of Veluna
The chief rival tradition to the Aerdian tradition, the Velunan tradition recognizes Rao as a supreme, but distant power who delegates much of his authority to lesser gods. All gods considered allies of Rao are worshiped by this church, including Pelor, Heironeous, Allitur, Zodal, Zilchus, and St. Cuthbert. With its odd Flan-inspired doctrine of salvation, this might have remained a regional oddity if not for St. Cuthbert's enthusiastic evangelizing of the Velunan tradition helped his uncompromising view of the church's doctrine spread as far east as the Duchy of Urnst, as far south as the Yeomanry, and as far north as Blackmoor. The Velunan church is now found throughout the western and central Flanaess, and all look to Canon Hazen as the supreme cleric of their faith.
The Duchy of Urnst is more closely aligned with the Church of Veluna than the County of Urnst, which remains loyal to the Prelate of Almor.
The Old Faith
The Old Faith is an ancient Flan religion headed by a single Grand Druid, who is essentially the pontiff of the religion.
If a church isn't part of the Velunan or Aerdian traditions, or the Old Faith, they may be part of any number of independent temples, which may each be dedicated to one or more deities. There may also be smaller unions of temples, usually dedicated to some revelation from a saint that managed to start a local movement. Many Suel temples have secret ties to the Scarlet Brotherhood, though many have resisted the temptations of Brotherhood agents. Independent temples may be pushed out of nations with a state religion, or be forced to go underground (as evil religions often must).
There's also the Baklunish churches, primarily the True Faith and Exalted Faith. Neither of them are solely dedicated to Al'Akbar, though they exist because of Al'Akbar's revelations; all Baklunish deities are revered in both faiths, however, and recognized as more cosmically potent than Al'Akbar himself. The "Ancient Paths" that existed before the time of Al'Akbar are mostly forced underground, except in barbarous lands such as Ull.
It's interesting to note the conflict between many faiths on Oerth, even between good aligned faiths. Between evil faiths though I can see much more conflict. Good faiths compete over ideas most often, but evil faiths would naturally compete over followers, territory, resources, and sometimes just for the sheer carnage of battle. In particular, I know the priests of Iuz, Nerull, and Vecna often fight against each other and struggle for dominance, while each group fears the return of Tharizdun. Then there's always the remaining Hierarchs of the Horned Society just waiting off in the wings for the right time to strike.
It's interesting to note the conflict between many faiths on Oerth, even between good aligned faiths.
Exactly. When I wrote my *cough*unfinished*cough* articles on Mayaheine, the initial response of most of the Heironeans was pretty hostile to her prophet, if for no other reason than that Mayaheine represented competition. People get territorial, and even if two gods represent pretty much the same basic ideas their followers might think each is treading on the others' toes.
Speaking of good faiths, if you haven't looked at it yet I really enjoyed the supplement, Bastion of Faith. It focuses on a church of Heironeous and has some very interesting information in it. It can also be used for any other faith with some modifications, but I think it works very well for Heironeous.
Yep, Bastion of Faith is a very interesting source for the church of Heironeous, and to a lesser degree Hextor. It has a 2E Faiths & Avatars- style writeup of the two deities. The Guide to Hell has a few details about secret Cuthbertine orders and of course devil-worshipers.
I also enjoyed the Guide to Hell, but didn't like it as much when it explored the origins of Asmodeous and put him really above and outside of all the other gods. It was an interesting and outside the box origin story and I thought it was cool, but I guess it felt like they were straying from the old 1st edition story, although it was a sparse story at best.
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