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    Canonfire :: View topic - New Era for GreyHawk in Dragon magazine?
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    New Era for GreyHawk in Dragon magazine?
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    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Renton WA

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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:48 am  
    New Era for GreyHawk in Dragon magazine?

    according to the Piazo website Erik Mona has been made editor in chief of Dragon as well as dungeon... does this mean that we will see some greyhawk related articles in dragons future?
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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:45 am  

    To be honest, I don't know how well thos bodes for the GH community. Erik will now have to make Dragon the best he can. he is now going to have to "split duties" in a sense. To me, that sounds like there will be a new associate editor of Dungeon... And I hate to see that because Dungeon was becomeing a real good source for GH. Lets hope at least DUNGEON continues with that.

    Now if both DRAGON and DUNGEON become focused on more GH material, will both sources be diminished in quality? Or will there be so much that I'm going to have to subscribe to Dragon Mag as well?

    *shrugs*

    Let's just hope this move works out well for us that had so much praise and hopes for Erik as editor of Dungeon!

    *raises glass*

    Here's to the future. Congrats Erik!

    ...............................Omote
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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:55 pm  

    Wow, editor of TWO magazines? Yeah that's a bit much to chew. I'm leery and hope he remains more concentrated on Dungeon too. Any word as to why Matthew Sernet is leaving so soon after the overhaul of Dragon?
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:43 pm  

    He was offered a job in Wizards R&D.
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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:55 pm  

    Matthew Sernet was undistinguished as Dragon editor and utterly failed to bring off the concept of a "new" Dragon to judge by the first three issues, which have been pathetically bad. That he finds refuge in the arms of WotC only speaks to his incompetence for he is there in good company with the Master Book Masters of TORG. If Sernet is not to go the way of the Dodo, he has much to prove and much to accomplish.

    All congratulations to Eric Mona! Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

    And to think I knew him when he was just a moon faced boy from Minneapolis come to Boston. All smelling of beer and pizza. Wink

    I will offer a prediction. In 24 months or less Mr. Mona will no longer be employed by Paizo Publishing. We will, however, not have heard the last from him. I say no more for fear of jinxing matters but let us just say that a fight long in the making will be on - The Cockroach vs the Mongoose. My money is on Eric "Mongoose" Mona to once again make good.

    As I said to someone just the other day, "I return to you at the turning of the tide."

    Buckle up people. This is an A ticket.

    NightScreed
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:48 pm  

    please let us not turn this into a Sernett bashing thread...

    Wes

    (who has a soft spot for Sernett in his heart, for buying his first ever published gaming related work.)
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    Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:45 pm  

    I think we'll need mags that aren't owned by WOTC before we'll see more GH content in both.

    There are good bits in each mag at times but in the end, to me, they are vehicles for advertising new WOTC releases more than anything else.
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    Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:57 pm  

    Well if Erik IS editor of both for 2 years, I'm sure it will be a glorious 2 years. I look forward to his tenue, but I also say to Mr. Mona... STAY THE COURSE WITH DUNGEON. Keep focus on that mag. It has for the first time in years become an extrememly valuable source for any DM and 'hawker. I have never been more excited for a magazine in my life... I look forward to the continued excellence that has been so prolific in the past 6 months or so...

    ....................................Omote
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    Prince Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Castles and Crusades Society
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    Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:25 am  
    Disagree

    I like the fact that Erik Mona has received the job. I have liked his work in the past, and think that it will help GH in the pages of Dungeon. However, I disagree with the comments about the last few years of Dungeon and the previous editor (s).

    I have at times found the constant format changing to be irritating, but I have also greatly enjoyed the adventures. The number and quality of GH adventures have been excellent, and general enough to be included in any campaign.

    Dungeon has a role, much as Dragon has. While I think it should be a little more GH specific on occasion, it should not be GH exclusive. What has not been GH specific has generally been easily adaptable.
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    Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:24 pm  

    Agreed that Dungeon has had more GH content than Dragon recently, at least on the surface. But for the adventures recently published that were actually set in the WoG, I can't recall one that borrowed so heavily from the setting that it couldn't be easily genericised except Maure Castle Revisited.

    Looking to the future, I guess one could argue that this trend will continue: In the long run the majority of adventures published by the magazine will have to be of the 'easily transportable' variety. So not too many Maure Castle Revisiteds down the road.

    But wait a minute, think of all the upcoming Eberron adventures! Will they be as easily 'genericised' to WoG campaigns? Hmm, that setting has new classes and new races, you say! I guess not without a lot of revision work.

    Doesn't seem fair, but Eberron = WOTC's new baby, so it will happen. That's what I was getting at. It will be interesting to see what the future actually brings. I wonder how well Eberron is selling, personally.
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:30 am  

    I too am curious as to what changes(though I'm sure at this point that they will be minor) will occur in Dragon under EM. Dungeon has a very solid format now, as has been evidenced by the past few issues. IMO, the goal of having something for everyone is being realized by all who are working on the magazine. Since the reformatting of both magazines, I think both have been improving. From a retail aspect, it is easier to talk up something you know has a bit of something for everyone. And the reason I know this is that both magazines have consistently contained soemthing of use to myself, as the DM of a campaign that has been going on for 15 years now(which is not bad as I understand things). I may not always make use of every adventure or every article, but there is at the very least information of interest to me.

    As to Eberron, I was expecting more of a "Shock and Awe" advertising campagin and release schedule. The core book has something to offer as both its own setting book and with regards to some of its unique bits as well. The warforged substitue well as automata from Mechanicus, or as clockwork creatures, or as sentient golems(which they basically are), while the artificer class works well in FR for followers of Gond, or in WoG as followers or Murlynd in particular(if you mix in a bit of Knowledge:engineering and alchemy skills).
    The Changeling sub-race offers many possibilities. I'm leaning more towards them resulting from Scalet Brotherhood creature breeding experiments between humans and dopplegangers, plus the SB are well known for their duplicitous methods and infiltrators as well. The other stuff I am pretty much leaving alone. The 'Sharn: City of Towers' supplement doesn't sound all that interesting as of yet. A better subject would have been targeting a whole region of this new and yet to be detailed campaign world, rather than mainly just one city. It isn't Greyhawk after all(and I wouldn't treat Greyhawk the same way either- see "The Next Big Thing For WoG" thread for my ideas on this and the brutal release schedule entailed therein to bust it out into the public eye). Maybe there will be more in this supplement than I expect there to be.

    ---Cebrion
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:01 am  

    I wouldn't expect Dragon or Dungeon to become a "all WoG" resource, and to be honest, I don't think I would want it that way. I personally love the way the Dungeon is right now. To appease everybody, there is a little bit of everything thrown into each issue.

    I am completely content with one piece of GH material in each issue.

    ................................Omote
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    Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:19 am  
    Hardby

    There has been a lot of talk about the level of content in Dragon, and I just wanted to note what I thought was a great GH supplement:

    The Gynarchy of Hardby was excellent, as was the ensuing adventure. I liked it so much that I am thinking of starting my next game there.

    Just a note.
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    Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:36 am  

    Wasn't the Gynarchy of Hardby fromn the pages of DUNGEON? I seem to remember it being in Dungeon... or was there MORE to Hardby in the pages of Dragon?

    I don't read Dragon mag. at all, havn't for years.

    .............................Omote
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    Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:33 am  
    whoops

    slip of the typing digits. It was in Dungeon.
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    Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:37 pm  

    To anyone that has received the latest Dragon, explain to me why is there the word 'Mordenkainen' on the cover but in the article there is no further reference to said worthy. Or did I miss something?

    That kind of stuff is particularly galling ... grr ... Mad
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    Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:01 pm  

    One of the first big changes you'll notice is that the word "Mordenkainen" won't appear on the cover unless we mean it.

    At least not during my tenure.

    --Erik
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    Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:51 am  

    There was also a Dragon several issues ago that printed 'Grayhawk' in the table of contents. I'm sure that grated on a few of us. Don't drop the ball erik Laughing
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    Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:19 am  

    I seem to remember a few years ago or so that the front cover of the mag has the title MORDENKAINEN vs. ELIMINSTER splashed across the top of it. When I looked inside, there was nothing whatsoever about it. What a steaming pile. One reason I don't read dragon anymore (among others).

    ............................Omote
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    Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:28 pm  
    My suspicion

    Hello,

    I suspect that Mr. Mona will not drop the ball. Greyhawk is a breathing and evolving setting. Sometimes it takes a step forward, sometimes it takes a step back, but it is rarely stagnant (too many of us to let that happen Wink ). Erik may be rehashing old news, but that may simply be his staging platform. I think that with the wealth of possabilities in WoG, he can certainly allow Dragon Magazine to focus on a whopping one well developed article per issue. I personally would like to see the WoG gods revisited (Suel, Olman, Flan, etc) and how they act with each other and how their followers react. I guess I'm saying that I will give Mr. Mona a fair shake and the opportunity to see what he can do with Greyhawk.

    I Miss the Wild Coast
    Dwarf from Nyrond

    PS- I secretly hope he stays away from Epic level stuff. I feel that Greyhawk is best portrayed as a setting where the common adventurer is struggling to make his way in the world.
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    Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:19 pm  

    Quote:
    I personally would like to see the WoG gods revisited (Suel, Olman, Flan, etc) and how they act with each other and how their followers react.

    From our chats with erik on Thursday I believe there will be more on the GH deities in our future. Whether they will be seen in Dungeon or Dragon I can't recall exactly.
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    Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:56 am  

    I always felt that GH was a setting where the God stay (for the most part) out and apart from the lives of mortals on Oerth. I think the Greyhawk Gods are pretty well described and featured predominatly throught the years (with the notible exceptions ofthe Gods presented in Monster Mythology).

    I'm excited about anything that comes down the pipleine for GH, but personally I'd much rather explore the realms of GH mortals then the Gods again.

    .........................Omote
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    Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:52 pm  
    Revisiting the gods

    Hey there,

    Oh don't get me wrong, I meant that the gods should be discussed in how they act as a platform for society. Smile I have about as much interest in the workings of the gods as they have in my characters workings Wink I just figured that taking a step by step approach to the peoples of Oerth could help broaden the scope of Greyhawk. I'd like to see the perspective the people would have towards other people and their gods.

    I think there is just so much to discuss in WoG, that a nice firm foundation of various layers of society would help prepare players and DM's for a wonderful tour of the continent. After religion could be laws and punishment, entertainment, industry in the various kingdoms and cities. An adventure could be included dealing with these things (be they heavily incorporated into the plot or lightly touched upon). Once a foundation is laid down, then the folks (authors) can have a field day picking and choosing what they want to focus on.

    One of the things I'm doing for my campaign is introducing the players to the industrious and practical atmosphere of the Yeomanry. The buildings usually have windows with basic shudders. Once the party travels to Keoland or Ulek, they will be introduced to latticed and glass windows. It doesn't sound like much, but with something as simple as windows, the players get a completely different feel for the lands and cities they travel. This idea is kind of what I'm hoping for from Mr. Mona and crew, simple differences in the world that may give it a good hearty feel. But then again, I could be completely bonkers Cool I do like to prescribe to the idea that a raging torrent begins with a single raindrop Wink

    I Miss the Wild Coast,
    Dwarf from Nyrond
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    Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:55 pm  

    Omote wrote:
    I always felt that GH was a setting where the God stay (for the most part) out and apart from the lives of mortals on Oerth. I think the Greyhawk Gods are pretty well described and featured predominatly throught the years (with the notible exceptions ofthe Gods presented in Monster Mythology).

    I'm excited about anything that comes down the pipleine for GH, but personally I'd much rather explore the realms of GH mortals then the Gods again.

    .........................Omote
    FPQ


    In sentimental terms, I agree with Omote that reading about the gods, again, would not be among those things I would be very interested in reading.

    HOWEVER,

    I very much would like to see a definitive treatment of the Greyhawk gods in the way of Faiths and Avatars for the Forgotten Realms. I would call these "Shut the F up" articles that would lay to rest players and DMs obsessively obsessing about this god or that and what they like to eat for breakfast. It would settle questions that arise from too little information beyond given alignment, portfolio and scattered and abbreviated treatments or mentions here or there. A perfect use for canon. I was very pleased to hear Mr. Mona describe his intentions in this regard at last Thursday's Greychat.

    GVD
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    Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:04 pm  
    Hate to be a bother

    Howdy Folks,

    Unfortunately, I didn't get to partake of the Greychat, so could somebody PM me with a brief sysnopsis of Mr. Mona's intentions? Thanks a bunch.

    Dwarf from Nyrond
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    Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:37 am  
    Re: Hate to be a bother

    DwarffromNyrond wrote:
    Howdy Folks,

    Unfortunately, I didn't get to partake of the Greychat, so could somebody PM me with a brief sysnopsis of Mr. Mona's intentions? Thanks a bunch.

    Dwarf from Nyrond



    It was stated in nebulous terms that, at some point, a series of articles detailing the "core" gods (of Greyhawk) would see print in Dungeon or Dragon. These articles would look to be definative. My description of "Shut the F up" articles that would end the sometimes endless debate over the details of the gods and their worship was more or less deemed accurate. No time table for these articles was mentioned.

    GVD
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