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    Canonfire :: View topic - Raising strength
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    Raising strength
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: May 13, 2004
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    From: MS Gulf Coast

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    Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:13 am  
    Raising strength

    A quick question, or better yet, a look for outside ideas and opinions. I have recently been taking our group through the U series, and an interesting situation arose this past weekend about strength. There are a pair of identical twins in the cluster of PC's. A paladin and priest of Pelor. Also there is another young man, a budding lil psionicist, named Argarus, or 'Gus' for short. The twins are massively large in terms of build, but poor lil Gus is rather scrawny, his player affectionately referring to his build as 'gangrel with a chicken chest.'

    There was a great deal of laughing going on when Gus' player announced that he was hanging around with the twins doing all sorts of things to build muscle. He needed some meat on his bones. So there was quite a bit of roleplay about what the twins were doing to poor, scrawny Gus. Such as draping him with chain mail on long jogs, dragging him here and there in situations with much physical activity and lifting. It was mostly done for humor's sake as my players hammed it up in roleplay. When the twins player asked if I would allow Gus a point of strength after all his efforts over time, of course I immediately drew up an eyebrow and said no.

    But it did spawn an interesting discussion. Has anyone ever considered such a thing? If under such circumstances, a young and somewhat self-conscious PC were to undertake a rigorous training program for purely innocent reasons, such as wishing to add bulk to an otherwise boney frame because of constant exposure to other young men with a massively impressive build, could he possibly raise his strength a point? I am well aware of magical means, such as a Manual of Gainful Excersice. But what about old fashioned sweat and work? And I am also aware of possible abuse of such an idea. But being a small group with the same views on playing and DMing we rarely run into such problems.

    Perhaps under innocent circumstances, not...'okay, you have this optional strength building thing happening so I'm gonna do that and raise my fighter's strength to an 18.' What if you used a system that involved working out a training program, where perhaps a PC with intentions as Gus could (in 2e terms) used NWP's or such in his 'training program' and after a set amount of NWP's his strength would go up one point, only once and never beyond 18. It would mostly seem to me, to be a roleplaying situation, more than any urge to get one over on the DM and gain a point of strength. And in Gus' case IIRC at his current strength I don't think one point would make any difference as far as a hit/dmg bonus.

    Just curious as to your thoughts. Smile
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 19, 2003
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    From: Dolly-land

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    Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:30 am  
    Train Hard...Play Hard BLEH! I need a nap.

    Dearest Tedra,

    All the time our young hero Gus is spent "working out" with the large and identically handsome twins should have been spent quietly contemplating his inner eye or whatever young lonely budding psions do to build thier "meta-muscles".

    I say sure, give him a STR point, but take away some INT or WIS or CHA or PSI power to compensate. Young Gus prolly won't like that too much.

    Remember too that Gus needs to continue his "arduous workouts" with the twins, or lose his new found brawn, and this doesn't mean he gets back whatever (e.g., INT or PSI power) that he gave up/lost. He'll need to work HARD (although without the twins...) for that too.

    FL
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    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    From: Cooke City, MT, USA

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    Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:46 am  

    Well, you say "2e terms", are you using proficiency slots, or the character point rules from Player's Option: Skills & Powers?

    If you're using slots, and don't think it will seriously unbalance the character compared to his peers, I'd go ahead and let hm burn a slot on a point of STR. Be prepared though, other characters may want to do the same, perhaps with otherability scores.

    Same basic deal for character points, just make them blow 8 or 10 of them to get the point.
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    Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:29 pm  

    Which "2E terms" r u using?

    Skills & Powers or the basic 2E?

    If its the first I'd lift only his Stamina score, not his STR....if u use plain 2E the suggestion of Fairylover seems quite useful...maybe with a slight modification....burn some PSI point instead a point of any Ability...it could be achieve the same end.....
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:43 pm  

    Good suggestions, guys. As for 2e terms, I meant just regular ol' basic 2e without the adaptation of the Skills and Powers options.
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    Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:21 pm  

    I wouldn't allow it for several reasons. As Fairylover stated, devoting that much time to a work out should affect the current class abilities. I'd rule that wih the time required to maintain, and improve, the current class abilities, the PC just doesn't have the time for such a dedicated Str building program. If you do allow it, I can't see a reason for losing Int, but psi points could be effected. I'd also consider an experience point penalty on all earned experience points while the PC was devoting so much time to activities unrelated to the class.
    Also, it would set a precedent. Once it's established that you allow Stat increases through specified activities, other players will probably start coming up with ideas to increase their own stats.
    Scott
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    Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:04 pm  

    This come down to mechanics over roleplaying.

    By the letter of the rules (d20/3.5), he should not get the added point of STR unless it oocurs during a leveling up time where his stats can be improved. But is that what you are playing too? A mechanic? Or is the idea to have fun and to reward a player that is responsive and pro-active, contributing to the fun factor?

    If the player has invested time within the game, and if his efforts brought out fun and mutual enjoyment. Give it to him. Even on a one time basis. This might promote others to perk up and do the same.

    Maybe this counter arguement will help...

    How would you handle the opposite response by your twins? What if they sat around for three months not exercising, just drinking, and sleeping in? I'd say dock them a point of STR or CON. Well, you can't do that either because the game assumption is that, off-camera, they are maintaining their fighting status. "Off-camera" means no penalty and no active roleplaying.

    By not rewarding the player, you may be seen as a slave to the rules and crush future attempts by your players in general.

    Your not writing an "official" published product, so feel free to indulge your players and yourself. Do you need "official" justification so that it "feels" legit? Fine. Your the GM, it's your call ultimately (see the DM's guide introduction regarding ultimate authority and responsibility).

    Reward good roleplaying. Reward Gus! Happy
    CF Admin

    Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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    From: Rel Astra

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    Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:14 pm  

    Quote:
    By the letter of the rules (d20/3.5), he should not get the added point of STR unless it oocurs during a leveling up time where his stats can be improved.


    heh, that is funny, or rather, amusing. Wink

    Quote:
    Your not writing an "official" published product, so feel free to indulge your players and yourself. Do you need "official" justification so that it "feels" legit? Fine. Your the GM, it's your call ultimately


    Now, that's what I'm talking about.

    Nice contribution to the discussion, Zeph. You should chime in more Wink
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:44 pm  
    Good Response

    Zephy's response feels right. Good job. I would reward him on a one time basis, and then tell the other players that if they do something so unorginial as to do the same, well, then they might get the STR point but loose a WIS. Such original roleplaying is hard to comeby if we are bound too much by the rules, and that can diminish the fun. On the other hand, he is getting the reward for the roleplaying and originality, not the mechanic, so it shouldn't work for someone else.

    Sounds like you have a good roleplayer there. Enjoy!
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 26, 2001
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    Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:07 am  

    The Mythus rules have a system for increasing scores. Basically, you pick one ability to work on. The character must folllow a very strict regimen (intense training and exercise for Str, reading and thinking for Int, meditating for Wis, etc.) for the next three months. There is a cost, that doesn't translate into D&D rules, so you'd have to assign one. At the end of the three months, the ability score gets boosted by one point. This is for scores in the average range. Time and cost will be increased for improving abilities already above average.
    Scott
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    Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:36 am  
    There's always a cost....

    How about giving him the point of STR, but docking him some XP? (Say 5% of his total, or 10-15% of the adventures he was in while training.)

    I know it's cheesy, but how can he benefit from his experiences and grow as a psion if he's always hitting the gym?

    Telas
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: May 13, 2004
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    Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:12 am  

    Thank you for all the replies, and suggestions. I think Gus will remain at his current strength. My player has made Gus rather hyperactive when not flexing his brain in training and he is now latched on to something else in his down time. In game time he hasn't spent enough time with the paladin and the cleric to gain a point of strength. I think she has made Greyhawk's first ADHD psionicist. Wink
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 11, 2004
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    Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:54 pm  

    Hey Hun!

    He's NOT ADHD! He's just a people person! Laughing
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:10 am  

    Kalem wrote:
    Hey Hun!

    He's NOT ADHD! He's just a people person! Laughing


    Certainly dear, and which white haired psionicst named Gus are you adventuring with? Laughing Need I remind you of the general store incident?
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