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    Canonfire :: View topic - Ancient Alliances and Enemies
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    Ancient Alliances and Enemies
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:59 am  
    Ancient Alliances and Enemies

    I was tossing around some ideas for the hidden non-human history of Greyhawk. What the other beasts and humanoids were up to before the big Baklunish, Suel and Oeridarian migrations.

    -

    Centaurs – Small villages within Furyondy, Shield Lands & Nyrond. Centaur ruins are 1,000 to 3,000 years old. Records of Fighting vs Duergar (Furyondy) & Bubgears (Nyrond)

    Dwarves – Lairs and Ruins 500-800 years old. Separate kingdoms in Crystalmist Mountains, Griff Mountains, Yatil Mountains, Onwall. Fighting vs Frost Giants (Griff Mountains), Fire Giants (Crystalmists), Sahuagin (Onwall).

    Elves – Lairs and Ruins 300 to 5000 years old. Celadon Forest, Adri Forest and Celene. Fighting vs Yuan-ti (Celadon), Kobolds (Adri Forest), Bugbears (Pale).

    Gargoyles – Rakers, Yatil Mountains. Separate kingdoms. Gargoyle ruins are 1,500 to 3,500 years old. Alliance with Dwarves (Yatils), Fighting vs Frost Giants (Rakers).

    Lizardmen – Wild Coast to Dreadwood. Tribal kingdoms. 3,000-20,000 years ago. Vandrheim. Records of Fighting vs Drow (Hellfurnaces), Centaurs (Furyondy).

    • Demon - Tanar'ri allies – Drow, Fire Giants, Hag (Any), Minotaur, Red & Black Dragons.

    Drow ruins are 500 to 4,500 years old. Spider symbols and designs throughout. Records of fights vs Lizardmen (Pomraj), Surfaces raids vs Elves (Celene) and Suel Imperium (Sulhaut Mountains).

    Fire Giant Kingdom of Brennaheim was 1,000 to 10,000 years old. Flame and Destruction symbols and designs throughout. Records of fights vs Dwarves and surface raids vs Humans. Alliance with Drow (1,000-4,000 years ago). Lairs within the Crystalmist & Jotens Mountains

    • Devil - Baatezu allies – Aboleth, Duergar, Frost Giants, Medusa, White & Green Dragons.

    Duergar ruins are 1,000 to 6,000 years old. Slavery and War symbols and designs throughout. Records of fights vs Dwarves (Rakers), Elves (Cairn Hills), Surface raids vs Kobolds (North Kingdom).

    Frost Giant Kingdom of Kaldrheim are 1,500 to 10,000 years old. Ice and Winter symbols and designs throughout. Records of Alliance with Duergar (Rakers, 2,000-4,000 years ago), Fights vs Dwarves (Griff Mountains) and surface raids vs Ogres. Frost Giant lairs within the Griff Mountains & Rakers Mountains.

    • Mind Flayer Empire - Illithid often have Bugbear, Hook Horror & Umberhulk minions.

    Bugbears – Ancient Kingdom from Duchy of Tehn to Theocracy of the Pale areas. 2,000-20,000 years ago.
    Records of fights vs Centaurs (Nyrond), Elves (Pale).

    Mind Flayer-Illithid ruins are 3,000 to 30,000 years old. Slavery and darkened sky symbols and designs throughout. No light sources throughout. Capture slaves for food and work force. Fights vs Yuan-ti (Bright Desert). Original empire from Lake Quag to Lortmills to Rift Canyon.

    • Yuan-ti Empire – Yuan-ti often have Kobold, Mephit, Naga & Sahuagin minions.

    Kobold ruins in Ahlissia from 3,000-15,000 years ago. Records of fighting vs Duergar & Elves.

    Sahuagin ruins are 1,000 to 20,000 years old. Rough cut caverns half or all filled with water. Carvings to sea beasts. Records of invading Aboleth (Lordship of the Isles), Fighting vs Dwarves (Onwall), Yuan-ti alliance. Sahuagin lairs within the Sea Barons, Azure Sea, Aerdi Sea.

    Yuan-ti empire was from Hepmonaland to the Bright Desert to Adri Forest. Ruins are 10,000 to 30,000 years old. Serpent & feasting symbols and designs throughout. Aztec pyramids, bladed weapons, transmute prisoners into warped beasts. Records of invading Elves (Celadron Forest), Mind Flayer (Bright Desrt). Yuan-ti lairs in Amedio Jungle, Beneath Ahlissia, Hepmonaland, Vast Swamp.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:45 pm  

    This was a fun read. I love incredibly ancient history and nonhuman civilizations. Should I take it from your choices that goblins and orcs didn't exist in the Flanaess until the Great Migrations?
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:03 pm  

    As far as ancient history goes I never saw Goblins or Orks as major players in Greyhawk. Atleast not as much as the Orks in Faerun or both races in Middle Earth.

    I figure they would have been around for around a thousand years, maybe goblins moving up from underdark or north east from amedia jungle, while orks moved east over the hellfurnaces.

    The exception of course is Bone march and Pomraj, but they may have been forced there as other less self-destructive races forced them out of their territories.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:31 am  
    Re: Ancient Alliances and Enemies

    blakeryan wrote:
    I was tossing around some ideas for the hidden non-human history of Greyhawk. What the other beasts and humanoids were up to before the big Baklunish, Suel and Oeridarian migrations.



    In my present campaign set in an area east of the Old Hills in the County of Ulek, I have the following history that I'm using as background for some adventures.

    Velene (elven kingdom) first controlled the area until a civil war resulted in the loss of the entire area west of the Lortmils.

    Dwarves moved into the power vacume in places immediately adjacent to their mountain strongholds in the Lortmils.

    Hill Giants almost immediately contested the dwarven expansion, eventually driving the dwarves out (who felt the land not worth the effort) and establishing a brief Hill Giant kingdom.

    Flan overthrew the Hill Giant Kingdom and held sway until the migrating Suel showed up.

    The rest is as canon for the most part.

    Using Hill Giants has been a ton of fun. I draw inspiration from Karl Edward Wagner's short story "Two Suns Setting" that features the immortal hero/villain Kane and the last of the giants. The short story can be found reprinted in Night Shade Books "Midnight Sun" that collects all of the Kane short stories.
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:39 am  

    I like Gnolls, it just something about them kind grabs you. I would like to see more detailed histrory of Gnolls on Oerth.

    I can alreasy see there shamans having connections with minor demons, blood feuds, a hatred for man.

    Where do you think this could fit in or is there something already?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:39 am  

    DarkHerald wrote:
    I like Gnolls, it just something about them kind grabs you. I would like to see more detailed histrory of Gnolls on Oerth.

    I can alreasy see there shamans having connections with minor demons, blood feuds, a hatred for man.

    Where do you think this could fit in or is there something already?


    I know Cruel Summer Lord (CSL) did a whole series of articles on the various humanoids, but I don't think he ever did one on gnolls. At least I couldn't find it. I did some work in a previous GH campaign iteration that drew alot of inspiration from the broo of Runequest, but never really got it into any very finished manner. Sounds like a topic ripe for plucking.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:53 am  

    Gnolss would be hard as I always pictured them only having an Oral History since they are pretty nomadic. But I have to agree that they are one of my favorites. I even got to play a Gnoll Ranger in a friends campaign for awhile. It was interesting getting to play a character that just never really fit in anywhere he went.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:17 am  

    I think if I had to ever play a humanoind type character they would be one of my first choices. As was mentioned they are nomadic.

    Gnolls are a race of hulking, humanoids that resemble hyenas in more than mere appearance; they show a striking affinity with the scavenging animals, to the point of keeping them as pets, and reflect many of the lesser creatures' behaviors.

    Gnolls are capable hunters, but are far happier to scavenge or steal a kill than to go out and track down prey. This laziness impels them to acquire slaves of whatever type is available, whom they force to dig warrens, gather supplies and water, and even hunt for their gnoll masters.

    Creatures other than hyenas and other gnolls are either meat or slaves, depending upon the temperament of the tribe. Even a dead or fallen comrade is a fresh meal for a gnoll, who might honor a distinguished tribe member with a brief prayer, or thoroughly cook one that has died of a wasting disease, but otherwise view a dead gnoll as little different from any other creature. The more “civilized” gnolls do not eat their prisoners, but instead keep them as slaves, either to defend or improve their lair or to trade with other tribes or slaver bands.

    Gnolls relish combat, but only when they have the obvious advantage of numbers. In other situations, they prefer to avoid combat except as a means of winning a kill from another hunter, or as a clever ambush to bring down a large meal. These hyena-men see no value in courage or valor, instead preferring to flee once it becomes clear that victory is not possible, noting that it is better to run with tail tucked away than to lose one's tail entirely.

    During combat, gnolls use a strange mixture of pack tactics and individual standoffs. If a gnoll feels that it is winning, it attempts to take down a weaker being rather than aiding its fellows. If the gnolls are struggling, they gang up on a powerful leader and try to take that creature down, in the hopes of forcing its allies to flee.

    Gnoll leaders are typically rangers, although clerics are highly regarded as well. Most gnolls find arcane magic difficult to master, and as a result it is relatively rare to see a gnoll bard, sorcerer, or wizard.


    Which area would best be suited for Gnolls in Greyhawk? What about a tribe of Gnolls on the Dry Steppes? Could be interesting to run a campaign styled on the migration of the tribe during hunting seasons and what they do to survive?

    Thoughts?

    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:16 am  

    well there are Gnoll tribes locations in the Pomarj marked on Anna's map of the Pomarj. Not sure where she got that info from but I have seen it in a few other places as well. I would see Gnolls turning up everywhere. Although they are rarer than some other humanoids like orcs or Goblins, they are better traveled so I could see them being all over the place. And with their skills as hunters and trackers they would be the scouts for the Humanoid armies of Greyhawk. I do know the artwork in the LGG shows them killing Prince Alain IV in the Ratik entry. Oh no I I'm starting to make obscure references to canon material. I think Rasgon is possessing me! LOL
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:23 am  

    Is what thinking of maybe having them in some sort of conflict with the Wolf Nomads. They could be in service to Iuz.

    The could be working as a hunting packs with human Warlock (male witch) as there tactile leader. Possible a cleric of Iuz part of the pack.

    I need to give this some more thought .... Neutral
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:24 pm  

    vonbek wrote:
    well there are Gnoll tribes locations in the Pomarj marked on Anna's map of the Pomarj. Not sure where she got that info from but I have seen it in a few other places as well.


    Anna likely got the reference from the Dragon #167 article "See the Pomarj: And Die!", which includes a list of humanoid tribes by name, type, and hex location. Whadd'ya know! That article is by Joe Bloch of the Greyhawk Grognard blog! Cool

    Otherwise, the Folio/83' Boxed set booklets and further source books list what humanoids, if any, are present in each land.

    And yes, Alain IV is getting owned by gnolls in that pic, but there are not gnolls in Ratik. The gnolls are in the Bone March, which Alain IV invaded.
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:42 pm  

    Correct but the pic is in the Ratik listing.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:35 pm  

    Dragon # 367 had some nice fluff on gnolls in the "Playing Gnolls" article by Keith Baker. Some of the highlights -

    Gnolls were created by Yeenoghu by feeding his most powerful and most savage demons to a pack of hyenas. The fusion of the demons and hyenas resulted in the first gnolls as offspring.

    Gnolls eat every part of their prey, including the bones.

    The gnoll sexes are so similar in size and appearance it is hard to tell males from females unless the latter are pregnant or nursing. This has led to folktales among other races that gnolls are hermaphroditic or can change gender.

    Some gnolls can mimic and throw their voices to lure and trick opponents.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:05 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:


    Anna likely got the reference from the Dragon #167 article "See the Pomarj: And Die!", which includes a list of humanoid tribes by name, type, and hex location. Whadd'ya know! That article is by Joe Bloch of the Greyhawk Grognard blog! Cool

    Otherwise, the Folio/83' Boxed set booklets and further source books list what humanoids, if any, are present in each land.



    Yes that article is where I found a lot of the locations for to Pomarj tribes. Paul N6 and Paul Looby did a exellent job helping me find and put together the facts behind my map.

    //Anna
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