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    Canonfire :: View topic - Do your females fight?
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    Do your females fight?
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 01, 2004
    Posts: 252
    From: Nyrond

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    Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:26 pm  
    Do your females fight?

    Hello Everyone,

    "Orc" females that is. One of the things I like about WoG is the gritty flavor inherent in the setting. So, do Orc females, when the lair is invaded, pick up a weapon and fight *or* are they beaten into a state of submission by their mates to a point that they cower in the corner? What's your take on the social structure concerning Greyhawk Orcish culture?

    I Miss the Wild Coast,
    Dwarf from Nyrond
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 19, 2004
    Posts: 147
    From: Edmonton, Canada

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    Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:57 pm  

    I play that any healthy female fights. They may cow to the more aggressive males but they would view outsiders as threats and will definitely fight and defend their territory. I think that aggressive races need to have aggressive females as well as males.
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: May 13, 2004
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    From: MS Gulf Coast

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    Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:48 pm  

    If interlopers happen across a group of females inside their lair, I like to play on the 'good' side of my players. Usually, I will not have females attack right away. I simply make my players aware that they have happend into some room of orcly domesticity where the females stare at them in shock with wide disbelieving eyes. Perhaps even have a child or two in the room. This will more than likely give pause to a group of generally good PC's. How malicious would it be to wade into a room of females and slaughter them and their children? Any weapon the females are carrying are usually concealed, making them appear unarmed, and most of the time, good PC's may be tempted to simply run in, give them a good scare and leave them be. Perhaps even slip back out of the room. If they happen to take this course of action then as soon as PC's leave the females will raise as large an alarm as possible to decend on the kindly hearted group. That's always fun. Otherwise, if they press the issue, then yes, I have my females fight just as ferociously as their male counterparts. Sometimes more so if there are young about.
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
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    Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:34 pm  

    Since humanoids have classes, I simply determine that the females are commoners. Thus, they are as willing to fight as any common serf or fishwife - it depends on the circumstances and they wont be very good at it.

    Tough matriarchs might simply have several levels of commoner and be a bit tougher as a result.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
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    From: Canada

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    Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:16 pm  

    Orc women are habitually beaten into submission by their menfolk, and as such do not fight. They are usually expected to do nothing more except cook, serve as the pleasure of their mates, and give birth to as many sons as possible. Since orcs can have several offspring with each pregnancy (helps keep the population high to account for the regular losses from war and disease), the orcish women usually have enough to do in the day looking after the little brats, cooking food, cleaning weapons and armor, and so forth. Dwarf women often have it bad (in the way that 19th century Victorian women did in real life), but when you're an orc, having two X chromosomes means you're in for a long life of misery and woe.

    As to how they react when adventurers burst into their part of the lair, chances are they'll either plead for mercy (which rarely comes) or use their pent-up rage and innate hatred of humans and demihumans to attack fiercely, although not very well. Since most orc women have less than one Hit Die and/or are only 1st level commoners, they usually don't last long. Those women that do fight are usually very fierce, however, given that they fight each other all the time...

    Incidentally, as with humanity, certain humanoid or giant women can end up domineering the male members of their clan, and standing out based on their own "talents". Such instances are very rare, of course, but there are one or two bawdy songs making the rounds of the Nyr Dyv about how it is not only female adventurers who have to deal with the "intentions" of any monsters they're unlucky enough to be captured by...
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    Joined: Oct 20, 2004
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    Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:35 pm  

    I'm probably alone in thinking that orc females shouldn't be portrayed as little more then victimized slaves to their male counterparts.. At least not all orc females. Let's remember that in general, Orcs all have the same physical build and the same aggressive attitude, whether male or female.

    So, considering the male orc would be dealing with someone nearly as strong as he is and just as prone to violence.. I doubt he'd end up with an easily tameable female sex slave.. While she might not be the killing machine a male is, she'd definetly be spiteful enough to slit his throat (or rip off his unmentionables) in his sleep. It'd probably easier for the males just to keep the females fed and comfortable so they'd stay home, provide nookie and raise the young'uns then to work hard to enslave the females.

    Secondly, let's remember that Orcs are a Chaotic race, and as such probably don't have any real standards of behavior past their innate aggression. So it's entirely possible that different Orc tribes have different kinds of male/female relations, with some tribes being male-dominant/female-subservient and others being egalitarian (meaning that if you're tough enough to do what you want, you do).

    Thirdly, here's an optional idea: What if Orc females, being typically calmer and methodical (the beauty of maternal instinct) are actually the secret governing force behind the orcish race, manipulating the impulsive, aggressive males to do the hard, dangerous work while they stay back home and reap the rewards of the males' pillaging? Cool
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 19, 2004
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    From: Edmonton, Canada

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    Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:22 pm  

    Quote:
    I'm probably alone in thinking that orc females shouldn't be portrayed as little more then victimized slaves to their male counterparts.. At least not all orc females.


    No you are not. I was about to add to this post. We see many heroic females warriors human, elf, dwarf why not Orc. In 1st monster manual does say on way or the other. The 3e manual does say that the females "prized possessions at best..." but it does mean that they would not fight. I could see some cowardly orc males using them as fighting shields. Just because they are not equal does not mean that the females cannot fight. Look at our own society there is pretence equal but not really and still women fight, but not all as not men do either.

    I think the Orc females are more likely to act like mama bear if they can run they will, but if there are children or their lives are at stake they will fight. Hard and well. There will always be exceptions too.
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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    Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:27 pm  

    Orcs are not just domestic abuse warnings...I see Orcs as social darwinists

    Orcs are NOT Chaotic but lawful evil, they are vicious and brutal but have a social order within which females play their roles and can achieve status even power as a priestess of Luthic as seen within Ivid the Undying.

    Granted Orc society is male dominated and female orc are abused but the females would wish to attach themselves to the strongest males for support and protection.

    The males would approve of females that are compliant, breed and nuture the young because that would strengthen the tribe.

    Females would not recieve the formal training of the males instead focusing on the domestic skills needed to secure a male but given the instinctive ferocity of orcs if given no option she would protect herself and offspring.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 01, 2004
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    From: Nyrond

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    Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:14 pm  
    Thank You

    Howdy Folks,

    Thank you for your input. One of the issues I have with 3.5 is that it is too generic. The old monster manual gave names of tribes (Hmmmmm, gritty greyhawk feel) and made the monsters (sigh) come alive. I find it difficult to find good resources on such matters. I guess that's why I come here Wink

    I Miss the Wild Coast,
    Dwarf from Nyrond
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2002
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    From: Sky Island, So Cal

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    Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:04 pm  

    If you allow humanoids to have levels, there will always be exceptions. Some female orcs may be quite high level fighters, theives, preistesses, etc.

    But, in general, if you want to know what orc females are like, look to the gods. The gods are projections of orc society. Male orcs have gods that variously represent the role of commander/chieften, brawler, and disciplined soldier-liutenant.

    The orc goddess Luthic represents what would be "expected" female behavior. The Cave Mother has long claws - with which she digs a cave to protect her young. She can use the claws to defend herself if cornered.

    The Cave Mother is (IMC) associated with the Vile Rune - a rune of protection and fertility.

    Putting all this together, I would assume that female orcs would be very rare on raiding parties, but they would be very active in defending their homes. Female orcs are likely the ones who construct traps around and within the lair, and the ones who "man" the traps that require active input. For example, a male orc would be too lazy to dig a pit, but females would cooperate in digging pits, weaving flimsy coverings for them, and covering them with dirt. When adventurers fall into the pit, females would rush forward to pelt them with stones.

    Metal weapons would probably be the province of males only, but females would use rocks, vines, sticks, and the like to defend their lairs. If the lair was suprised by an assault, select females might make up the "shock force" to slow the inaders so that the males had time to arm and armor themselves. Female priestesses would be casting blindness and other harmful spells, perhaps protected by select, burly female bodyguards.

    A few ideas...

    Kirt
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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    Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:24 pm  

    Good post Kirt,
    Very nice practical suggestions on how to make use of female orcs.

    I looked at the question from a purely societial point of view.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 630
    From: on the way to Bellport

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    Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:54 pm  

    While most discussion has focused on euroz, I posted some ideas about ho-jebline at http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=91.

    In contrast to the characterization of euroz above I imagine the ho-jebline as having significant sexual dimorphism -- that is their phenotypes differ significantly on the basis of sex. In case my post isn't clear, the way I've imagined ho-jebline follows a kind of logic inspired by the notion that ho-jebline share some physical features with mandrills. Have you ever seen a baboon?
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