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    Canonfire :: View topic - Source for a Rary spell?
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    Source for a Rary spell?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun May 29, 2011 1:22 pm  
    Source for a Rary spell?

    Ever get to the point of owning to much stuff and getting to old to remember where things can be found.

    So maybe I am just imagining things but I do recall once reading the spell that Rary used to move his tower to the Bright Desert. If memory serves me correctly it was 3x but at this point I wouldn't go putting my life on the line about that.

    Thanks for any help you can provide.
    Forum Moderator

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    Sun May 29, 2011 8:46 pm  

    That is a difficult one. Rary was heavily elaborated on in Living Greyhawk by Creighton Broadhurst (who is a member here). If he sees this maybe he can shed some light.

    My memory of Rary the Traitor was that the tower was moved by daemons. This doesn't mean someone didn't concoct an epic spell to accomplish this. I'm sure someone else here has some ideas?
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sun May 29, 2011 10:48 pm  

    "He summoned yuggoloth and other creatures from the
    planes"
    Is the line from WGR 3 Rary the Traitor
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    Mon May 30, 2011 4:53 am  

    This is one of those, I am pretty sure I read the spell once (Not 100% confident).

    If I had to push my memory I think it was 3x material and think it was epic.

    This is what is not fun about creeping on 50 years old, the mind is just not as sharp as it once was when I could recall page numbers and source books at the flip of a coin.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon May 30, 2011 6:02 am  

    In Polyhedron #162/Dungeon #103 there are two new epic spells mentioned: Rary’s meritorious animation and Rary’s superlative draconic animator. But apparently no description of the spells is given because paizo "cut the spells because they did things similar to other spells, but forgot to drop them from Rary's spell list."

    See also Rary's epic spells thread on WotC
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    Mon May 30, 2011 9:11 am  

    Thanks, was already there and that issue I had already taken a look at. I own pretty much everything up to the end of 3.5. I did a few google searches, sometimes there are spell lists or discusions/articles but came up empty, also checked a few obvious sources like Rary the Traitor and Circle of Eight.

    It is one of those thing, I am fairly certain I read this spell some where.. and now it is bugging me.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon May 30, 2011 11:22 am  

    Have you seen the LG Ket Regional Gazetteer ? It has a whole chapter on the tower...

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13967638/KetGazetteer

    "One half-hour past sundown, Lopolla time, Rary's tower in the capital of Ket was surrounded with eldrich energy.Inside the green nimbus two score creatures were seen clinging to the tower wall and a terrible keening was heard.As the sound reached a crescendo the creatures shrugged as one, the tower heaved and then vanished from Lopolla's soil."
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    Mon May 30, 2011 1:52 pm  

    Thanael wrote:
    Have you seen the LG Ket Regional Gazetteer ? It has a whole chapter on the tower...

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13967638/KetGazetteer

    "One half-hour past sundown, Lopolla time, Rary's tower in the capital of Ket was surrounded with eldrich energy.Inside the green nimbus two score creatures were seen clinging to the tower wall and a terrible keening was heard.As the sound reached a crescendo the creatures shrugged as one, the tower heaved and then vanished from Lopolla's soil."


    The irony here is I read that a few days ago and it got me combing through material for the spell I thought existed or I had read some where at some point in time. Obviously old age is winning this battle but there is more then enough information available to create the spell myself.

    Thanks to everyone for their assistance in this matter.
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    Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:43 pm  

    I have read that spell also I believe it is in the epic level handbook.
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    Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:02 am  

    Thmpr wrote:
    I have read that spell also I believe it is in the epic level handbook.


    I looked before I posted but also just checked again to make sure that it isn't in the epic handbook.

    Good news: I am not the only person thinking he seen this before...

    Bad news: Still have no idea where..
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:23 pm  

    There is one spell in 2E that is similar.

    Tome of Magic 2E, p. 46- "Estate Transference"

    This spell actually transfers a large area of land(1,000 square feet/level), and all buildings/people/critters on it, to another plane, but it could be altered to simply move a structure from one place to another on the same plane.

    Not sure if that is the one you are looking for though. Between 3E and 3.5E, there are a lot of books to dig through if it is from either of those rules sets.
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    Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:52 am  

    Cebrion wrote:
    There is one spell in 2E that is similar.

    Tome of Magic 2E, p. 46- "Estate Transference"

    Many years ago I resolved myself to this not being the spell for 2 reasons, the description of the place where the tower was is never really described as a "hole", the tower is just gone. Finally, this spell takes it to an elemental plane, not teleported to just another location on the same plane.

    These are my observations though, if what I recall is correct the material I am looking for is fairly specific in the use that this is how the tower was teleported.


    Cebrion wrote:
    Not sure if that is the one you are looking for though. Between 3E and 3.5E, there are a lot of books to dig through if it is from either of those rules sets.


    Tell me about it, been combing through a ton. So I went ahead and devised an epic spell that Rary would of been able to cast and fit with the description of the events. Not sure why but something in me says Rary didn't invent the spell himself so started working on some history for the spell as well. I am also linking the history of the spell to the source of the disc rooms inside Rary's tower.

    Thanks for the info :)
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:51 pm  

    Vascant wrote:
    Many years ago I resolved myself to this not being the spell for 2 reasons, the description of the place where the tower was is never really described as a "hole", the tower is just gone.


    Now see, there being a hole is part of why it makes sense. A tower is not just something that sits on the surface of the ground, such that , if it is magically transported elsewhere, it leaves a nice, neat patch of dirt behind. A tower has a foundation, and a basement/dungeon level where the foundation is actually set. So, magically moving a tower along with its foundation, which necessarily must be set deep into the ground(the taller the tower, the deeper the foundation), not leaving a rather noticeable hole behind makes no sense at all. Going by the map of Rary's tower, there would be a rather large and deep hole left behind. I don't think Rary would care too much about what he left behind though. Wink

    As to the spell not being Rary's, that makes a lot of sense too, considering that he comes from the west. In the past, there were these two rather cataclysmic events that, just perhaps, some wizard or other managed to find a magical means to transport his entire home out of harms way of. Seeing as those two cataclysms wiped out most everything from that time, this wouldn't obviously be something that all of the powerful spellcasters of the time managed to to figure out.

    Except for this one guy, and it just so happened that Rary... Happy
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:08 pm; edited 4 times in total
    GreySage

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    Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:01 pm  

    Alright, Cebrion, now you're just making too much sense. Evil Grin

    I like it. Well thought out. Cool
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    Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:13 am  

    Well first off the spell can have whatever effect it needs as it's magic. but it could still not leave a hole as the dirt and everything that would need to be removed from the destination has to go somewhere. So no hole is left because that is where the destination dirt that has been removed goes to. problem solved.
    GreySage

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    Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:33 am  

    So your suggesting a transference? I don't think that would be absolutely necessary in order for the spell to work.

    To make room for the "new" dungeon, the destination location would certainly need to displace the earth located in that spot, but it wouldn't necessarily move it to the tower/dungeon's original location.

    Perhaps the earth would simply "bubble up," so as to place the "new" tower on a hill, rather than on flat ground.

    But that's just me. Wink
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    GreySage

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    Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:43 am  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    Perhaps the earth would simply "bubble up," so as to place the "new" tower on a hill, rather than on flat ground.


    A magically created motte. Smile

    SirXaris
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    Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:27 pm  

    In my opinion, here is the problem with the entire "Hole theory" being left and also if there is a dungeon in the first place.

    First, it is just a tower from all descriptions that was teleported and based on reading the first thing that happened after the tower is teleported is the yuggoloth began construction on the parts of the tower attached to it. The dungeon is accessed from these new parts based on the map so there was no dungeon under the tower when it existed in Ket. (or at the very least, the current mapped dungeon wasn't it.)


    Again, this is just my perspective based on what I have read.
    GreySage

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    Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:32 pm  

    Vascant wrote:
    if there is a dungeon in the first place . . . the first thing that happened after the tower is teleported is the yuggoloth began construction on the parts of the tower attached to it.


    A good and valid point. The question is whether or not the original tower had a dungeon and whether or not that dungeon was teleported away with the tower. Confused

    I am unfamiliar with the tower and event, so I can't say. If, however, the tower did have a dungeon level -- and that level stayed behind -- then there would still be an "open" area, or "hole," with which an aerial observer could look down into the dungeon.

    This would be much like what we see when we view tornado damage on our televisions and we "look down into" the "vacant" basement areas of missing homes.

    The dungeon area would not automatically be "covered over" and hidden.
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:36 pm  

    Rary: "One day, all of this will be yours, lad...er...Robilar."

    Robilar: "What, the curtains?"

    Rary: " No, lad. The tower, and the lands around it. You see, when I first teleported the tower to the Bright Desert, it didn't have a foundation. So, it fell over and sank into the sand. Not wanting to have to go through that again, I summoned some Yugoloths to take care of building a foundation and dungeons to go with it. And that's what you getting, lad- the strongest tower in all the Bright Lands!"

    Robilar: "But I don't like it."

    Rary: "Don't like it?! What's not to like? It's got the tower, the dungeons below, a foundation, rooms full of magic books and laboratory equipment, a nice little observatory, HUGE tracts of land...okay, its mostly sandy wasteland...but there's LOTS of it!"

    Robilar: "But, I just want to..."

    Rary: "Want to what?"

    Robilar: " I just want to...hunt down my other self that I can sense and kill it."

    Rary: "Woah, woah, woah! There'll be no killing of other selfs, not while I'm around. This is all going to be yours, so you better get used to the idea!"

    (People should always feel free to fix what previous writer don't think of, or simply don't mention.) ;)
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    Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:48 am  

    mortellan wrote:
    That is a difficult one. Rary was heavily elaborated on in Living Greyhawk by Creighton Broadhurst (who is a member here). If he sees this maybe he can shed some light.

    My memory of Rary the Traitor was that the tower was moved by daemons. This doesn't mean someone didn't concoct an epic spell to accomplish this. I'm sure someone else here has some ideas?


    Nothing leaps to mind regards a specific spell used to move Rary's fortress. The original draft of the article did include two epic spells, but I believe they both got cut for space reasons.
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    Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:33 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:
    There is one spell in 2E that is similar.

    Tome of Magic 2E, p. 46- "Estate Transference"

    This spell actually transfers a large area of land(1,000 square feet/level), and all buildings/people/critters on it, to another plane, but it could be altered to simply move a structure from one place to another on the same plane.

    Not sure if that is the one you are looking for though. Between 3E and 3.5E, there are a lot of books to dig through if it is from either of those rules sets.


    For reference: It's a 9th level wizard spell. The description includes elemental beings so it would fit with the fluff descriptions perfectly...

    Quote:
    Estate Transference (Alteration)

    Range: 0
    Components: V, S, M
    Duration: Permanent
    Casting Time: 10 turns
    Area of Effect: 1,000 square feet/level
    Saving Throw: None


    This powerful spell allows a caster to transfer a large area of land in the Prime Material plane to any of the elemental planes. All buildings, people, and wildlife within the area of effect are also transported. The land forms a pocket of the Prime Material plane within the elemental plane. The pocket is a sphere with a diameter equal to the diameter of the land. The surface of the pocket allows creatures to enter or exit the pocket, but prevents the elements from entering the pocket.

    Inside the pocket, the land is surrounded by air of a temperature matching that of the Prime Material plane at the moment the land was moved. In addition, a source of water is created within the pocket.

    Before the spell is cast, the area to be moved must be surrounded by solid markers of material from the destination plane. Thus, if a wizard wants to move his castle to the Elemental Plane of Fire, he must first surround the area with solid blocks of matter from the Elemental Plane of Fire, such as hardened magma or magically-crystallized fire. The blocks must be spaced no more than five feet apart and may be placed above ground or under the surface (at a depth of no more than three feet).

    The wizard must be within the area to be moved when he casts the spell. When the land moves, a hemispherical crater is left behind in the Prime Material plane. Inside its pocket on the desired plane, the land continues its existence as if nothing changed, with the exception of occasional visits from planar creatures.

    Any land that is moved in this manner can never again be moved with this spell.

    The material component (in addition to the markers) is the appropriate magical device to control elementals of the desired plane (bowl commanding water elementals, brazier commanding fire elementals, censer controlling air elementals, or stone controlling earth elementals). The item must be permanently placed at the heart of the area of effect and cannot be used for any other purpose. If the device is disturbed in any way, the spell immediately fails, allowing the energies of the elemental plane to flood into the protected area.
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    Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:03 pm  

    Thanael wrote:
    Cebrion wrote:
    There is one spell in 2E that is similar.

    Tome of Magic 2E, p. 46- "Estate Transference"

    This spell actually transfers a large area of land(1,000 square feet/level), and all buildings/people/critters on it, to another plane, but it could be altered to simply move a structure from one place to another on the same plane.

    Not sure if that is the one you are looking for though. Between 3E and 3.5E, there are a lot of books to dig through if it is from either of those rules sets.


    For reference: It's a 9th level wizard spell. The description includes elemental beings so it would fit with the fluff descriptions perfectly...



    Except this spell would put the structure on one of the elemental planes and not in the Bright Desert. I am just about finished with a rough draft of an epic spell that will accomplish this feat and going to post it.
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    Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:06 pm  

    I still have some smoothing out to do and while not giving up on finding the actual answer (assuming it exists), I decided to start hammering out the magic involved. Especially for a wizard not known for the creation of teleportation spells or devices as far as I can tell and yet he has/did 2 things almost every wizards dreams of, moves his tower and has fancy teleportation pads in his tower.

    Please note I did not make things fit exactly what Rary needed to accomplish his task due to in my opinion he did not create the original spell.

    (This is a first draft)
    Teleport Structure (Ritual)
    Conjuration (Teleportation)
    Spellcraft DC: 48
    Components: V, S, XP, Ritual
    Casting Time: 11 minutes
    Range: 0 ft.
    Effect: 200 ft radius, 600ft high cylinder.
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: None
    To Develop: 432,000 gp; 9 days; 17,280 XP. Seeds: transport (DC 27) Factors: Change from target to area (+10 DC), change area to 10-ft. radius, 30-ft. high cylinder (+2 DC), change radius to 200 ft. (+80 DC), change height to 600 feet (+80 DC)
    Mitigating factors: increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), seven additional casters contributing one 7nd-level spell slot (-81 DC), burn 5,000 XP (- 50 DC).
    As the spell is cast the structure slowly will become surrounded by green eldritch energy, to the point when at the closing minutes of the casting it will be completely encased. During the final moment, the entire structure will heave and then vanish.
    The character can literally move a single structure that exists within the area of effect to another location on the same plane of existence that he has physically visited. Everything within the structure is also teleported. The new location must be able to handle the structure or could encounter problems as the structure settles.
    XP Cost
    5,000 XP.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:35 am  

    Looks pretty good, though I would include some expensive material components, as well as require some soil/sand/stone/whatever(i.e. a sympathetic link) from the place that the structure will be transported to.

    Rary may know the old spell, but could then have researched an altered version of the spell that suited his needs.
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    Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:01 am  

    Cebrion wrote:
    Looks pretty good, though I would include some expensive material components, as well as require some soil/sand/stone/whatever(i.e. a sympathetic link) from the place that the structure will be transported to.

    Rary may know the old spell, but could then have researched an altered version of the spell that suited his needs.


    I will have to double check but pretty sure epic spells do not have material components. I do need to add a bit more detail and clean up some "what if's"

    I am not saying Rary could or did not research the spell or an alternate but it just seems unlikely to me is all.
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