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    Canonfire :: View topic - WG12 Vale of the Mage
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    WG12 Vale of the Mage
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 460


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    Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:12 pm  
    WG12 Vale of the Mage

    I've recently been reading through this module again, and, aside from the fact that the author didn't seem to be well-versed in Greyhawk at the time (for instance, referring to the Overking of the Great Kingdom as the "Great King," as well as getting the Mage's first name wrong), I noticed something very peculiar: the type and variety of wildlife in the Vale.

    For instance, in a region that one would assume to be temperate (about the same latitude as GH City, Hardby, Verbobonc, etc), the climate is listed as "subtropical." The animal life includes several animals found in subtropical/ tropical regions, many of which would seem more at home in the Amedio or Hepmonaland. The list on page 28 includes elephants, hippos, rhinos, baboons, gorillas, leopards, tigers, and constrictor snakes.

    The LGG doesn't seem to acknowledge this discrepancy, so I'm thinking whoever wrote the Valley of the Mage entry thought this was best ignored, as well as some of Rabe's other additions to the Vale, such as the Tree People (humans who took to the trees b/c ground predators were too dangerous, despite the fact that the Valley elves & gnomes do fine on the ground).

    The animals could likely be explained as transplants brought to the Vale by the Mage (or possibly Jakar), or perhaps some of them came from the crashed ship from S3 (its location is marked on the Paizo map as "Unoerthly Cave," about 4 hexes south of the Valley). Of course, an in-game explanation could view the informative parts of WG12 as the inaccurate research of a sage.

    Thoughts?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 496
    From: Dantredun, MN

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    Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:14 pm  

    Good topic.

    WG12 isn't very well researched, but I like the subtropical setting and I'm inclined to keep it. It's nice to have unusual monsters where adventurers don't expect them and the subtropical critters don't otherwise see a lot of action unless one travels pretty far south.

    The 83 Guide describes the Valley as "lush" and the line about "platinum and gems which are said to litter stream beds as pebbles" seems more at home in an subtropical setting than a temperate one. It sounds like the kind of story Northerners make up after seeing an alien, subtropical setting for the first time. Vague reports of "horrible monsters" also indicates exotic critters, maybe magical, but I like subtropical. The encounter tables are inconclusive, but do include cavemen in the mountains and tribesmen in the Vale.

    The Vale material in GH Adventures isn't helpful. It describes the Valley entrance as "barren" and has a handful of generic encounter. There is an interesting note in Jaren's description that the Valley was once ruled by the Grand Duke.

    FtA describes the Valley as "almost impregnable" and mentions Rabe's treepeople in both the Cyclopedia and the encounter tables. Baboons are also included in the encounter tables.

    The LLG also supports WG12, both with the art on p128 and terms like "lush", "warm and fertile." It also states that the southern half of the Valley is "tree-covered." The tree people probably developed their skills after the Valley Elf King departed and the "marauding monsters" started wiping them out. Apparently these monsters are nocturnal (top of 127), which would explain why the infravision-equipped elves and gnomes fared better.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:33 pm  

    I had always assumed Rabe was going for a lost world feel by putting tropical animals in a temperate location. I think it was intentionally meant to be jarring. But you are right on the other points about poor research, so who knows. We discussed the elephants on Mort's oliphaunt thread on his blog not too long ago.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:17 am  

    For me, Rick Miller's version of the Valley of the Mage in Oerth Journal #18 is the definitive one. That article basically ignored the tropical climate impled in Jean Rabe's book, though it took other inspiration from it, including the Tree People (though it asserts that the Tree People were inspired to live in trees by a practice started by the valley elves).
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1361
    From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU

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    Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:15 pm  
    Re: WG12 Vale of the Mage

    Robbastard wrote:
    ...For instance, in a region that one would assume to be temperate (about the same latitude as GH City, Hardby, Verbobonc, etc), the climate is listed as "subtropical." The animal life includes several animals found in subtropical/ tropical regions, many of which would seem more at home in the Amedio or Hepmonaland. The list on page 28 includes elephants, hippos, rhinos, baboons, gorillas, leopards, tigers, and constrictor snakes...


    -It's sort of a cop out, but

    (ahem)

    Magic! Laughing
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2007
    Posts: 290
    From: The Pomarj

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    Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:51 pm  
    Re: WG12 Vale of the Mage

    jamesdglick wrote:

    -It's sort of a cop out, but

    (ahem)

    Magic! Laughing



    And, for those who prefer a more scientific explanation ("scientific" being as relative term for this), There's always volcanic activity. On another note, perhaps the high mountains serve to trap greenhouse gases in the Valley, thus keeping the temperature warmer than it woulds normally be for this latitude.

    Or, just disregard the whole damn thing and stock the area with creatures more consistent with the climate and terrain.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 21, 2003
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    Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:18 am  

    Also keep in mind the idea of Micro Climates. This happens in the Himalayas and other remote Mountain valleys of our own world. Remote Valley's that are geographically cut off with enough cloud cover and other factors can have very warm temperatures even though they are at an altitude high enough that those temperatures would be out of the norm for that region. And keeping in mind that according to the original Greyhawk that the weather is heavily magically influenced anyway, you can pretty much have whatever climate you like there.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

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    Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:54 am  

    This is the situation in Grand Junction, CO. (4500 ft elevation)

    It is second only to San Fransisco for constant year round temperature. The Grand Mesa -- the largest flat top mountain in the world -- provides protection (nearly 12,000 ft) as do the Bookcliffs (7500 ft) and the Colorado National Monument, (10,000 ft).

    The mountains are covered with snow during the winter months, but the valley remains quite nice, with little snow fall.

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