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    Canonfire :: View topic - Shield Lands - Informations needed
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    Shield Lands - Informations needed
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 24, 2011
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    Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:46 am  
    Shield Lands - Informations needed

    Hi,

    I wonder if exists somewhere any informations about Shield Lands and his two dozens rulers (names, family, origins, coat of arms, territories etc.)

    I found a map of Sheild Lands where we can see site as Lardon,Gensal, Ringland, Bolam, Laws Forge ....

    I wrong if I think theses places represent keeps or small cities belonging to the rulers ??

    I would like to write an adventure who begin before war (570-579 cy) during the war and after the war (584-592cy) so if theses informations exist I don't want to waste my time to create something who already exist

    Merci to everyone
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:29 am  

    Aside from LG Shield Lands modules, your best source for those locations will probably be WGR5 - Iuz the Evil and Return to White Plume Mountain. I know there is some specific information on Ringland and Law's Forge.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:43 am  

    thanks
    I have Iuz module and RWPM

    but where I can get LG Shield Lands modules ?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:42 am  

    There might be some former Shield Lands triad members on Canonfire who could help you out with that.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:37 pm  

    The article "Valor is Our Blood!" in Dungeon Magazine #113 is a good resource.

    And, just so you know, one of the little quirks in the English language is that "information" is already a plural form, so you can't add an 's' to the end.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:34 pm  

    my English is not good.. I know it Wink


    thanks for that I appreciate. Smile

    Information without "S" ... I will not forget it
    rolleyes
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    From: Clarksville, TN

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    Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:51 pm  
    Re: Shield Lands - Informations needed

    mydrianor wrote:
    ...I would like to write an adventure who begin before war (570-579 cy) during the war and after the war (584-592cy) so if theses informations exist I don't want to waste my time to create something who already exist...


    -There was a Lord Franz from the Shield Lands in one of the high powered modules. It was the one that also had the bi-sexual Arch-Druidess, and they ended up capturing the Crook of Rao. This was set before the Greyhawk Wars.

    One of the NPCs in White Plume Mountain was Lord Sans Pitie, a renegade Shield Lander. This was set in the mid-570s.

    mydrianor wrote:
    my English is not good.. I know it Wink

    thanks for that I appreciate. Smile

    Information without "S" ... I will not forget it
    rolleyes


    -Good enough to get the info' I reckon. Laughing
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:51 pm  

    T'were 'Franz Torkeep' and 'Sir Bluto Sans Pite'. Wink

    SirXaris
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:23 am  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    Aside from LG Shield Lands modules, your best source for those locations will probably be WGR5 - Iuz the Evil and Return to White Plume Mountain. I know there is some specific information on Ringland and Law's Forge.

    How I did hunt for such info when I put together an article the the Knights of Holy Shielding. There is not much information out there. I know, as I scoured the published sources for it. Your best bet to find anything new or more fully detailed will be, as others have already said, Living Greyhawk Shield Lands material. There are about 70 adventures to dig through for information.
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    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:17 am  

    It's my intention to dig through the modules, although they are letter S and I'm only on letter C for County of Urnst at the moment. You might also find information on local rulers in some of the Meta-org documents. I think generally, the nation was a semi-independent Earldom of Furyondy and was made up of baronies, which were probably just tracts of land surrounding a keep or castle. Katarina was from Walworth, although I can't recall if she ruled it as a barony prior to becoming Countess. My own PC is an Shield Land exile whose late father had been a baron but since our campaign has only moved from 582 CY to 588 CY in the last 20 years the question of inheritance has yet to arise!
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:27 am  

    and how and where I can get Living Greyhawk Shield Lands modules..

    there is a cost to get it ?
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 30, 2001
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    From: Niflheim, 9to5

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    Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:36 am  

    You might want to join this Yahoo! Group. I suspect they have lots of good information in the Files section.

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shield-lands-lg/

    Don
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:15 am  

    Found this:

    Bohdon Earl Lyndon Bohdon
    Sharn Earl Simen Sharn
    Sharn Regent Natan Enarick
    Arbas Count Landon Arbas
    Bladehone Count Garridan Bladehone
    Danjor Earl Reynald Danjor
    Deleven Countess Anela Deleven
    Docamald Countess Tereza Docamald
    Harryn Countess Clarina Harryn
    Jakartai Count Colman Jakartai
    Jondo Count Mander Jondo
    Korsen Countess Dylala Korsen
    Lardon Count Janek Lardon
    Nalren Countess Marketa Nalren
    Olenak Countess Carlene Olenak
    Reyneld Earl Janszen Reyneld
    Shepkote Countess Manya Shepkote
    Torkeep Count Franz Tokeep
    Walworth Countess Katarina Walworth
    Yaldon Earl Planton Yaldon
    Bolam Count Bolam
    Delcomben Earl Delcomben
    Gensal Count Gensal
    Rendor Count Rendor
    Stahzer Count Stahzer

    Personally, since the leader of the nation is an Earl, I would have made the other lords Viscounts and Barons but there you go. I always thought that Franz Torkeep was a baron too. Perhaps when re-establishing the nation the council of lords elevated everybody to a more senior noble positions? Considering how small the nation is compared to Furyondy, I does seem to be chock full of nobles, although most are still in exile.
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:38 am  

    I was not involved with the LGG, but followed its results - so grain of salt.

    IIRC; a triad member mentioned the ruling count of the shield lands was "first among equals". Under that premise perhaps that is the reason for the numerous counts and countesses. It does seem rather odd.

    Second, following the reclamation, several "shirt tail" relations of dubious lineage rushed to claim vacant titles. Several outright frauds are suspected as proof is thin on the ground and the returned noble heirs squabble amongst each other over the various claims. The large number of nobles could reflect the claimants easily whittled down as frauds are uncovered and disputes settled. Of course, the true heirs need not triumph, lots of factions means role-playing opportunities.
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:02 am  

    Well, it isn't that odd in itself, it just looks a bit odd when compared to Furyondy which is a larger nation with far fewer nobles of count status. The hierarchy of WoG nobility is pretty fuzzy anyway (in Keoland the titles are fairly meaningless and the nobles are treated equally in the court of the land) and over-inflated titles would speak to the Shield Landers' arrogance that led to their downfall.

    Even so, I might still adjust them to be Viscounts if only because with so many nobles in such a small space, their realms are likely to be little more than the size of baronies of a few dozen miles each.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:29 pm  

    Let me just add for the record that finding anything on the Shield Lands during the Living Greyhawk is an exercise in frustration!

    here is what I could find about the SL modules from LG.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/11QsxcDqRtfPh6os9PIQIuP1HZQlQ7MqhGU4PruM-zo8/edit?authkey=CLygg2E&hl=en_US
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    -My kingdom for a Shield Lands map!
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:04 pm  
    Shield Lands LG mods

    You just haven't asked the right person then! Wink

    Send me a PM, I may be able to help.

    TT
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:19 am  

    mydrianor wrote:
    ...I would like to write an adventure who begin before war (570-579 cy) during the war and after the war (584-592cy) so if theses informations exist I don't want to waste my time to create something who already exist...


    -I just remembered!

    If you're looking for to create an adventure in the late 570s, you could do something on Redhand switching from the Shield Lands to the Bandit Kingdoms (CY 577).

    I think LGG did something with Redhand, only after they'd already joined the BK.

    I once planned on doing an adventure with starting PCs which woud revolve around the defection, but it never happened...
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:35 pm  

    Hi,


    first of all..thanks to everyone for these information,

    I appreciate Smile


    specially to PaulN6... thanks to you... to have found the names of the noble ones ... By the way where did you find them ??

    Regards
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:04 pm  
    Re: Shield Lands - Informations needed

    jamesdglick wrote:
    One of the NPCs in White Plume Mountain was Lord Sans Pitie, a renegade Shield Lander. This was set in the mid-570s.


    Actually, WPM does not say that Bluto was a Shield Knight, only that he was a "Knight of the Realm" (p 11). Since WPM begins in the City of Greyhawk, I suspect this was the reason Erik Mona made Bluto a knight of Greyhawk in the LG module River of Blood.

    See also: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bluto_Sans_Pite
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:07 pm  

    jamesdglick wrote:

    -I just remembered!

    If you're looking for to create an adventure in the late 570s, you could do something on Redhand switching from the Shield Lands to the Bandit Kingdoms (CY 577).

    I think LGG did something with Redhand, only after they'd already joined the BK.

    I once planned on doing an adventure with starting PCs which woud revolve around the defection, but it never happened...


    They did, but probably an easier source to find than those mods are the issues of Dungeon's Age of Worms adventure path which take place in Redhand. Specifically, Dungeon #131.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:09 am  

    My upcoming BK supplements will cover Redhand in depth. In the LG BK mod summary, all BK mods, including those set in Redhand, are summarized. In my BK Rogues' Gallery, Zeech's history, as envisioned by myself and the Living Greyhawk campaign is detailed. In my BK gazetteer, the history of Redhand is detailed, including Zeech's rise to power and succession from the Shield Lands, surrender to Iuz and his final redemption when he decides to fight Iuz. Granted, none of those are available at this time, but the mod summary is in final editing stages, the Rogues' Gallery is about half-way done, and the gazetteer is about half-way done. Age of Worms was not canon for Living Greyhawk (and personally, I think it was too high-powered plus it failed by not mentioning Iuz's control of Redhand, iirc) but I think I borrowed some family names at Britt Frey's urging.

    --Aurdraco (forgot to sign out of my SC campaign login)
    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:32 pm  

    SC-Tiny wrote:
    Age of Worms was not canon for Living Greyhawk


    Maybe not for Living Greyhawk, but it is canon for Greyhawk proper.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:16 pm  

    Robbastard wrote:
    SC-Tiny wrote:
    Age of Worms was not canon for Living Greyhawk


    Maybe not for Living Greyhawk, but it is canon for Greyhawk proper.


    No it's not. It was WOTC's official position that nothing after the LGG would be considered as canonical. Officially, Greyhawk canon is frozen at 591 CY.

    http://games.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Living_Greyhawk/message/6400

    If this position has been officially rescinded, I'd love to see the citation that verifies that.

    --aurdraco
    GreySage

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    Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:06 pm  

    Well, for one thing, Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk took place in 597 CY, so the note about the timeline freezing forever was wrong. WotC books never included the disclaimer Ryan Dancy mentioned.

    I do remember Ryan Dancy saying at the time that only the D&D Gazetteer would be considered canonical for core products, and I've always assumed that was true throughout the 3e era until they specifically said that core books didn't assume Greyhawk as the default world anymore (which they pretty much only ever did in 3.0, with some exceptions). The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer was never canonical for the core world, and I'm sure Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk wasn't canonical for the core world (which didn't really even exist at that point anyway) either.

    But! The question of whether or not something is canonical for "core" D&D modules is different from the question of whether or not it's canonical for Greyhawk in general. Because there were multiple Greyhawk continuities throughout the 2000s: "core" continuity, which was a very bare-bones; so bare-bones, in fact, that while it might have seemed like a good design basis for generic products to Ryan Dancy, it's of extremely limited use; Living Greyhawk continuity, which includes the LGG, the Living Greyhawk Journals, and everything else all the LGG people came up with; and Paizo continuity, which included all the Paizohawk adventure paths and their supplemental material, plus Fiendish Codex I, Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, and essentially everything else they felt like stuffing in there.

    "Canon" is admittedly a term of limited use, and I'd be happy if no one ever used it again. There is a sense, probably, in which the D&D Gazetteer is the only canon Greyhawk book, but that argument seems kind of silly to me.


    Last edited by rasgon on Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:23 pm  

    SC-Tiny wrote:
    Robbastard wrote:
    SC-Tiny wrote:
    Age of Worms was not canon for Living Greyhawk


    Maybe not for Living Greyhawk, but it is canon for Greyhawk proper.


    No it's not. It was WOTC's official position that nothing after the LGG would be considered as canonical. Officially, Greyhawk canon is frozen at 591 CY.

    http://games.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Living_Greyhawk/message/6400

    If this position has been officially rescinded, I'd love to see the citation that verifies that.

    --aurdraco


    Note that this post was made in 2000, when 3E was in its infancy.

    Read further down the thread, and you'll see this (my emphasis in bold):

    Because it's true. Greyhawk adventures published by us (WotC) will be set in 591. Adventures designed for and by the RPGA, set in our living Campaign, will advance in time depending on the real world year.

    The "official" date to 591CY so that we (the RPGA) >can< run a Living campaign set in Greyhawk . Ryan, and the rest of TSR management, are >very< enthusiastic about what we are doing.

    Scott J. Magner
    RPGA Network


    Then, on page 5 of Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, we have this:

    In the World of Greyhawk, the current year is 597 CY (Common Year).

    No matter what was intended in 2000, the idea was obviously abandoned by 2007, if not earlier (I would argue earlier, but I'm sure you'd reject anything released under the aegis of Paizo, despite the label of "100% official content" on many covers of Dragon & Dungeon).
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:24 am  

    As has always been the way, I'm finding that mixing and matching works best in your home campaign. I've poached events from LG and played them earlier in the timeline (trying to avoid major historical events though). It's probably possible to merge locations and npcs from Dungeon and LG to end up with a version that suits your campaign. I thought the Dungeon version of Alhaster was perhaps a bit high magic for my campaign, which started during 1e (just prior to 2e) so I am likely to tone that down a bit. I find LG to be a bit high magic sometimes too (with mage schools in towns of fairly modest size) so I'm likely to tone down many locations there too. I'm happy with there being only a handful of mage schools around the world in large, powerful cities with the majority of spell-casters being taught in the good old master/apprentice method from so many old school fairy stories.
    GreySage

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    Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:04 am  

    Robbastard wrote:
    I'm sure you'd reject anything released under the aegis of Paizo, despite the label of "100% official content" on many covers of Dragon & Dungeon).


    I think the fact that Dungeon and Dragon were "100% official content" (a phrase that appears on the cover of Dungeon #131) really counts as an official citation that their contents are, in fact, official canon... at least, for a given version of Greyhawk. Though Ryan Dancy's warning that WotC wouldn't fact-check any of it probably also applies. That task was left for Paizo to do.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:56 pm  

    Robbastard wrote:
    jamesdglick wrote:
    One of the NPCs in White Plume Mountain was Lord Sans Pitie, a renegade Shield Lander. This was set in the mid-570s.


    Actually, WPM does not say that Bluto was a Shield Knight, only that he was a "Knight of the Realm" (p 11). Since WPM begins in the City of Greyhawk, I suspect this was the reason Erik Mona made Bluto a knight of Greyhawk in the LG module River of Blood.

    See also: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bluto_Sans_Pite


    -I haven't read River of Blood, and I don't have WPM with me, so I'm working at a disadvantge. But I thought the atrocity which got Sans Pitie in trouble in the first place...

    WARNING MILD PLOT GIVE-AWAY:































    (and employed)
    (by Keraptis)


    END OF PLOT GIVE-AWAY-------------------------------------


    ...was committed was in the Shield Lands. This goes back to Mydrianor's original request for Shield Land's related NPCs who were in the area in the mid-570s.

    An adventure where the PCs meet Bluto before the incident might be interesting. Perhaps he started out as a good guy? Or the NPCs could try to stop or ameliorate his massacre while it happens, although killing, crippling, or capturing him might be problematic if you Mydrianor (or anyone else) doesn't want to change "future history." personally, I don't have a problem with it, if it happens within the game. I'd even look forward to it.

    I doubt that there's anything on BSP other than what is written in the paragraph in WPM, and in River of Blood (I guess I'll have to take a look sometime, just out of curiosity). Any chance I'm wrong?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:13 pm  

    I just read the ghwiki article.

    -I imagined him more as a renegade Shield Lander or Furyondian. I guess I still can, because:

    1) Just because he was a "local knight" in CY 565 doesn't mean his origin wasn't elsewhere (as with most of the CofG's "heroes").

    2) It's my world, and I'm welcome to it! Evil Grin
    Especially since it's Living Greyhawk. Wink

    I did have the impression that the atrocity was more recent, though.

    Oh well, so much for helping Mydrianor on that, though...
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:05 pm  

    A lot of ideas and suggestions ...very interesting ..
    and i appreciate that

    Someone coud tell me what happed in 590 where there are many disapearances of poor folk in Ten Town neaby critwall..

    I read The Hooded ones could be the responsible..is it true ?

    if so why: slavers, sacrifices, food, money... all answers ??

    I also read agents of Iuz coud be the responsible ....or something else coming from the ground as Dark Elf...or other monsters...

    where is the true about that...

    it is a new rising of slavelords...Rhenee could also responsible ?
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