I'm not sure what you'd include in "semi-canon," but there are a lot of deities we can add, dredging them up from various sources.
There's basically an entire generation of Oeridian gods we know almost nothing about, for example. Who were the parents of Zilchus and Kurell? Of Fharlanghn and Celestian? Who were the fathers of Heironeous and Hextor (and Stratis)? Who was the mother or mothers of the Oeridian wind gods (if they had any)? Merikka is a cousin of the Oeridian wind gods, which implies that not only does she have parents, but at least one of her parents must be a sibling of Procan - which might imply that Procan has parents.
There's room for "elder gods" in the other pantheons as well - maybe Lendor had parents, maybe Pelor and Nerull had parents - but a lot of the Oeridian gods are specifically noted as being siblings, which suggests they may have had parents, and there isn't really room in the Oeridian pantheon for those parents to be known gods, unless you reuse a lot of them a bunch of times (in which case, for example, Celestian and Fharlanghn might have a lot more siblings than we know). So all of those gods could be dead gods.
While Complete Divine implied that Ranet was long dead, she seems to exist in some sense in Dwellers of the Forbidden City, so maybe she isn't as dead as we think.
I started a elder gods of Oerth much earlier, and GVDammerung named a lot of obscure deities like Zarus, Erivatius, and Dargeshaad.
Orcus was dead for a while, though he's alive again now. In between, he was undead for a time, and he slew several gods, including Camaxtli, a god of fate connected to the Olman pantheon.
Depending on how much of Aztec mythology you incorporate into your Olman gods, Huitzilopochtli murdered his sister Coyolxauhqui and most of his 400 brothers shortly after his birth.
4th edition sources aren't really Greyhawk, but the gods of 4th edition are sometimes connected to Greyhawk gods, so you might consider various dead 4th edition gods to be "semi-canon." These include:
Amoth, god of justice and mercy, killed by the demon lords Orcus, Demogorgon, and Rimmon.
He Who Was: A good-aligned deity, unknown name and portfolio. Killed by Asmodeus during his rebellion against the gods.
Khala: Goddess of winter, supposedly the mother of Kord. Allied with Tiamat, Gruumsh, and other wicked deities before being killed by Pelor, Kord, and and other benevolent divinities.
Tuern: God of conquest and fire. Killed by Hextor?
If you just wanted names to be used as dead gods, you could also steal other 4th edition deities like Avandra, Erathis, Ioun, Melora, Torog, and Zehir. I'm not sure how they'd fit with the current pantheons, but they might have been members of the same generation as Pelor and Nerull, and predecessors to younger gods like Fharlanghn, Rao, Obad-hai and Boccob.
There are a bunch of dead demon lords, archdevils, and celestial paragons, too, though I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for. Examples include Arlgolcheir, Asima, Astaroth, Azael, Azuvidexus, Cyndshyra, Felex'ja, Ixinix, Kizaradexis, Qij-na, the demon lord Rimmon, Rhindorz'zt, Sertrous, Tantagorus, Beherit, Batna, Lucifuge, Bensozia, Vaeros, and Ascodel.
Long, long ago, on the Greytalk mailing list, a contributor called the Gargoyle sent out lists of additional deities to use in fleshing out the various pantheons of Oerth. He meant to use them as living deities, but they could be used as dead deities as well. Anyway, here's an Oeridian creation myth that I made up based on the Gargoyle's extra gods:
Quote:
Oeridian Mythology
In the beginning, Anaeus the Powerful wooed and won Herame the Plentiful. Their union brought forth many children, the first of whom were Procan of the Seas and Velnius of the Skies, both tempestuous deities and forces of nature in their own right. The lesser gods of the wind came shortly thereafter.
Next born were Kodos, god of the dead, and Mereter, goddess of magic.
The next two were gentle Myrha, goddess of the fresh waters, and mercurial Paesus, the hermaphroditic deity of passion.
Toreun's birth and parentage are a secret. She appeared one day out of nowhere, although Herame adopted her as her own. Some say the secret is that she was actually Myrha's twin, her introduction delayed because Paesus' chaotic, bizarre birth shifted her in time and space.
Next were Luscera, goddess of love and beauty, and Alia, goddess of war and culture.
Next were Mellios, god of civilization, and Ranseur, goddess of nature.
Shortly thereafter, Herame bore Anaeus two more children; easygoing Kelizan, the god of success, and brutal Dellemnus, god of monsters.
Finally, Herame bore savage Erythnul the Many, first war god of the Oerids, and his brother Delleb, the Reasoner.
Time passed, and the children of Anaeus and Herame came to have children themselves. Velnius took to wife Mereter, and she bore him Celestian and Fharlanghn, twins born to the call of the wind and the land beneath the skies.
Kelizan took to wife mysterious Toreun, who bore him Zilchus the Merchant and Kurell the Thief; twins as opposite as night and day.
Grim Kodos married Myrha of the fresh waters, and she bore Merikka, goddess of the harvest.
Wild Paesus bore cheeky Finneghan by self-fertilization. Ralishaz was Paesus' child too, some say by Dellemnus.
Mellios wed beautiful Luscera. Their sons were Bleredd, god of the forge, and Pholtus, god of light.
Dellemnus mated with beasts and demons, and sired many horrors that still plague the world and the gods.
And in the last days of the Age of the Gods, Erythnul, who had long coveted the fair Alia, forced himself upon
her and held her captive for the length of her pregnancy.
When his son Hextor was born, he spirited him away to study the arts of war at his father's hand; but Erythnul failed to realize that Alia carried a second son as well. Alia, brokenhearted by her brother's assault, fostered her second son with her sister Luscera and Luscera's husband Mellios. Young Heironeous grew to manhood alongside Pholtus, and the two youths learned of war and justice together.
In time, Heironeous and Hextor would meet again; of all the twins born to the Oeridian pantheon, no hatred is stronger than that between these two brothers.
The act of rape, however, doomed the Age of the Gods. Anaeus decreed that for his crime, Erythnul must die. Erythnul hid with Hextor and Dellemnus, with demons, giants, and monsters. The armies of horrors marched upon the gods, determined to overthrow them. The other gods stood firm, determined that justice would prevail.
Ronseur and Delemnus fought. Ronseur's beasts were evenly matched with Delemnus' horrors.
Erythnul and Pholtus fought, and Erythnul's blood became the first orcs, goblins, ogres, and trolls. Pholtus' blood became the first elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and men. These new mortal races fought each other as well, and continue to fight to this day.
Heironeous and Hextor, now grown youths, fought. Heironeous triumphed with the aid of his mother's magic salve. Hextor fled to the Nine Hells, where the Lords of Evil granted him new arms, and thereafter the brothers fought to a draw.
Still there was no clear victor. Then Toreun, the Liar, betrayed the gods of good, showing Erythnul a secret passage to Anaeus' throne. Erythnul killed his father where he stood, and Toreun and Erythnul fled back to the demons' camp, pausing only to steal the sun and moons from the sky.
When the other gods discovered what Erythnul and Toreun had done, their morale was shattered. The demons fought them with more fervor and zeal than ever before. Kodos was killed by Orcus, who turned the spirits of the dead against the gods. Myrha was raped and killed by Dellemnus. Paesus was devoured by Demogorgon. Mereter was killed in magical combat with Graz'zt. Mellios was destroyed by a mechanical horror of his own creation. Finneghan was torn limb from limb by hundred-handed giants when he tried to sneak into his enemies' stronghold. Luscera was ripped apart by the wolves of Karontor. Finally, Erythnul ripped open the belly of Herame, feeding her entrails to his beasts when he had satiated his own demented hunger. Ronseur died with the strain of preventing all living things from dying with their mother.
The gods rallied. Heironeous slew Dellemnus. Pholtus rescued the suns and moons. Toreun was executed by Kurell, her own son, who was so much like his mother. Celestian rescued the spirits of the dead, bringing them safely into the heavens with the souls of the dead gods.
Still the land was covered in darkness and death, ruled by demons and horrors. Among the mortal races, a prophetess called Johydee and a priest named Arnd helped free the lands of the last of the servants of evil, but Johydee told her people that they must go eastward, and find new fertile lands untouched by the godswar. Eventually they came to the valley of Ull, where Merikka made the first crops bloom.
In all seriousness. Rasgon does have me intrigued by the gaps in the GH family trees. Elder gods, dead gods, there is room to grow here and the notes he presents, as always is a good direction.
Pardon this, but it is late.
IIRC; the ethereal or was it the astral plane that has an unspecified number of decaying corpses of ancient gods merely floating around.
It's the Astral Plane. The Ethereal is all about beginnings and possibility - it's where the ethereal mists congeal into protomatter, which over the eons eventually collects into demiplanes. The Astral is the non-space where things come to their end - dead souls travel through it, dreams and gods and myths drift there to die.
Yep. That's where I read: "Eadro has been absent from his realm for over a decade, and even his most loyal servants have no idea where he has gotten to. He said only he had to attend to an important matter, leaving a council of three proxies to rule in his stead. In recent months their powers have begun to wane, so that they have summoned the nomadic triton god Persana to help them protect the realm."
Is that the most current information? If so, where is he? (Somehow, I think the covey of storm hags on Cloudsea know the answer)
Excellent stuff Rasgon, I salute you!
I'm mainly curious about this subject of "dead gods" because I'd like to add dead Oerthian God of Adventure, whose body is drifting in the astral plane. I was thinking about making him a Zindian herogod, originally sponsored by Fharlanghn. He lost all of his popularity when it was revealed that he had been a half-orc during his mortal years, thus rendering him "untouchable". In just 100 years he lost all of his followers and due to personal honor he refused any help from his superior deity. Becoming a forgotten god effectively killed him and now he's drifting in the astral plane.
I was just thinking about comparing my story to the canonical dead gods and perhaps making some adjustments or scrapping the whole idea altogether.
I don't see anything wrong with your story, Sutemi. Making him from Zahind means you can do pretty much whatever you want without altering any known canon.
One idea for a Zindian pantheon that I enjoy originated with Roger Moore. he postulated that Zindia has a -lot- of minor deities, hundreds and hundreds, due to a weakness in the planar fabric in that region. This "soft spot" provides access to the Prime Material Plane for any number of demonic hosts. The Zahindian divinities guard against these demonic forces (primarily rakasha & their minions), fighting epic battles on the Ethereal Plane around Zindia.
Or at least that's how I remember it.
Also, might not an Untouchable caste deity be worshipped by untouchables?
Also, might not an Untouchable caste deity be worshipped by untouchables?
Good question. I think that untouchables want to elevate themselves to a better caste, thus worshipping higher caste deities. Insignificantly few actually accept their status and solidify it by worshipping gods of their own caste. And besides, untouchables don't adventure so the exclusive portfolio (adventuring) of the deity is too disjointed for them. Of course some adaptation from the god would have save the situation, but he took his loss and "died".
This is how I thought it, don't know if it makes sense...
I'd say yes, if it's a benevolent deity
I know what you're getting at: That every caste would have their own deities, and no "cross-overs" would be allowed.
I was however thinking that some deities would restrict worship according to castes and some wouldn't. And the ones that are kindest certainly don't, even though some of them are of the highest caste.
Hard to say... But we are certainly going a bit off-topic here even though I enjoy the conversation :D
I'd say yes, if it's a benevolent deity
I know what you're getting at: That every caste would have their own deities, and no "cross-overs" would be allowed.
You're ascribing altogether too much intent and forethought to me. :)
Nellisir wrote an old article on Lo Nakar that mentioned two dead gods:
Ainatet: "once the goddess of rogues and bards, and wife of Norebo."
Sryndro: "an ancient rival of Lendor's and a god of dreams and deception"
Ainatet has since received a full writeup in a recent Oerth Journal.
More nameless, forgotten, and obscure deities that could potentially be dead:
*Carl Sargent's "Suel snake goddness"(if not Wee Jas, Ranet, or Beltar).
*The "Snake Lord" (GotF p14, might be a Beast Lord?)
*The Serpent/Mok'slyk
*nameless Torhoon god (Dun77 p50)
*nameless Lacothah god (Dun77 p76)
*nameless Faranth god (Dun83 p14)
*The Flame Lord, The Fire Fiend (Dun82 p37-38)
*Huhueteotl - Lord of Fire (Dun84 p18)
*Vesperian (Deep Horizon) alive, but "largely forgotten"
*Laveth (Dun84 p23) "semi-divine" and might be killed by PCs.
*Finally, there are Kord's children, 1% of which are demigods (Dr87), and some of which have most likely died (one by the name of Kayden appears in WG7).
Last edited by vestcoat on Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Just mentioned her in the Elissa thread, Bristia Pel, the Princess of Elemental Good Fire. She was betrayed and killed by two lesser elemental lords in the war of law against chaos.
Holy smokes, Vestcoat! I would have put a lot of money on NO ONE ever referring to the original version of Lo Nakar!!! :D
Heck, -I- had to go search out the original to find the Sryndro reference.
Ainatet is covered in the OJ.
Sryndro...I have no further information on. I suspect it was a link to Cyndor, but I forget the nature of the connection I intended. I would have to do some research (keeping in mind that Cyndor has gained details since my writing). Its probably easiest to consider Sryndro a demi-power of illusion, similar to Ainatet as a demi-goddess of enchantment.
The Sryndro reference was replaced, in the Overview of Lo Nakar article on CF, by a reference to Noss, who was intended to be the deceased Suel god of the sun. (Suel deity names tend to be derived from English words or terms: Phaulkon = Falcon, Wee Jas = Oui Ja/Ouiji. Norebo = Oberon, and thus Ainatet = Titania, and Noss = Sun. What can I say? It was probably late. I might have been drinking.)
Holy smokes, Vestcoat! I would have put a lot of money on NO ONE ever referring to the original version of Lo Nakar!!! :D
I always thought the Sryndro and Ainatet references in that article were awesome and was puzzled when Sryndro didn't appear in later versions. My Lo-Nakar.txt file has journeyed through a floppy disc and four computers over the last fourteen years or so.
In the South Province Campaign, I included the Gods of Pegana as the previous generation of gods, of which Tharizdun was one of and most of the current gods were descended directly from. Though none of the Peganese Gods were encountered directly, the Hound of Sish was awakened and sicced on the PCs, who then killed it.
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
The Yak-Men thought the hound would have given them a longer fight, too...
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