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    Canonfire :: View topic - Christmas in Greyhawk
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    Christmas in Greyhawk
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:10 pm  
    Christmas in Greyhawk

    Okay. Not really Christmas. Nor Hannukah. Nor Kwanza.

    But as one campaign year comes to an end and a new year looms, do your Greyhawk characters or campaigns celebrate that time of year in Sunsebb?

    IMC, the celebration is called Yule. It is roughly analogus to "Christmas," being on the 25th of Sunsebb and being a time for the giving of presents and a general feasting and merry-making in the middle of Winter.

    Yule is not associated with any deity, IMC, but is a druidic holiday that is still celebrated, even in areas that have given up on druidism in favor of a particular deity. By this I mean the Old Faith nature worship, not that of Obad-hai or other "druidic deities," although all of these are strong supporters of the Yule tradition.

    IMC, there is a fey spirit variously called "Old Man Winter," "Kris Kringle" etc. that brings snow and cold temperatures to every part of the Flanaess on a line from southern Sunndi (excluding the Spindrifts and the Lordship of the Isles) to the Yeomanry (excluding Keoland, the Principality of Ulek, Ket, the Baklunish Near West, the Pomarj, Wild Coast and Hardby) and north for between 2 and 4 weeks in Sunsebb and Fireseek and always during Needfest.

    PCs IMC actually celebrate Yule, meaning there is note of the time in the context of the game; it impacts the environment, NPCs etc. I usually try to run at least one Yule adventure every year, further making this in game holiday meaningful.

    Does anyone else actually make a Yule celebration or any other holiday an annual event in a campaign that is marked in an adventure or by a holiday specific adventure?

    As we got our first snow of the season today, and I got to go out and play in it (driving/shopping), I started to think about my games annual Yule adventure. If you don't think its silly (I love snow and cold), please share any similar game holidays that you have made an annual event of some significance.

    GVD
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:37 am  

    While I haven't played long enough to have a 'Christmas' game session, you have a sound idea there. The concept of not having a specific diety is also pretty good. It's just pretty much paganism at its core. While I for one salute the "Goddess", she is not specified to a certain name for me, therefore fitting in to your concept of non-specific diety. But there are also a host of other Gods and Goddess' that could also be paid homage to during that time, and Yule is actually a pagan holiday. And it makes sense that there would be differing customs in different parts of Greyhawk for that time of year, race, etc.
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:04 am  

    You might want to track down Greyhawk: The Adventure Begins, and review the sections on holy days/ceremonies in the city. The "yule"/new years holiday is in fact Needfest, and that book goes into some depth regarding how it is observed in and around Greyhawk city.
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:23 am  

    Thank you, Firenice. I was a bit concerned people would think it a silly idea. A friend of mine used to run an annual Halloween game where he would run players through I6, Ravenloft. That gave me the idea of a holiday specific game but I decided to vary the adventure each year.

    Chatdemon, thank you for the note to tAB. I had forgotten about that section. My "Yule" predates tAB but I had forgotten that there was "canon" for the proposition. My Yule does not coincide with Needfest but preceeds it.

    IMC, the elves of Celene are of two varieties. The High Elves are essentially "Oerth elves," a variant, sentient species. The Grey Elves are quasi-fey. Once, the fey in the Flanaess were far more prevalent and influenced early human druidic practices. Only a few of the fey remain to exercise any of their former influence. Old Man Winter/King Boreas/Kris Kringle is one such. Among all of the holidays of the Flanaess, IMC, six have fey and druidic associations, but are widely celebrated nonetheless -

    Yule - Old Man Winter/King Boreas/Kris Kringle
    Beltane - The Green Man & the Lady of the Lake
    Midsummer - Oberon & Titania
    Samhain - The Queen of Air & Darkness
    Harvest Home - The Autumn King & Queen Cornucopia
    New Years - Father Time & The Lord of Misrule

    I only regularly run a Yule adventure but have run other holiday specific adventures on occasion. It seems a way to make a holiday meaningful as more than just a DM notation.

    IMC, the "Fey Mysteries" of Celene have something of a fey tinge, as above although not exclusively. I do not see Celene as an entirely fey realm and the "mysteries" as just a name for business as usual within the realm. Elves IMO might look to the fey in much the same way a human culture might hark back to some fabled or lost empire of old.

    GVD
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    GVD
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    Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:05 am  

    I like how you've related the various Fey to the holidays. Its a great way to link related adventures to those entities through the holidays when they are at a point of eminence.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:56 am  
    Re: Christmas in Greyhawk

    GVDammerung wrote:
    IMC, the celebration is called Yule. It is roughly analogus to "Christmas," being on the 25th of Sunsebb and being a time for the giving of presents and a general feasting and merry-making in the middle of Winter.

    Yule is not associated with any deity, IMC, but is a druidic holiday that is still celebrated, even in areas that have given up on druidism in favor of a particular deity. By this I mean the Old Faith nature worship, not that of Obad-hai or other "druidic deities," although all of these are strong supporters of the Yule tradition.

    GVD


    I like your ideas for this holiday, but as may have been mentioned previously, Needfest is a better date than Sunsebb 25 for a Yule celebration.

    Your use of Sunsebb 25 is an obvious analogy to December 25th and Christmas. But Christmas was not always on December 25th. Originally, Christmas was celebrated on January 7 or 8. The eastern Christian churches still celebrate Christmas in January; a colleague of mine grew up Russian Orthdox in California and celebrated Christmas on January 8th, much to her embarrassment.

    The western (Roman Catholic) church changed the date of Christmas, presumably to coincide more closely with the Pagan celebration of Yule and therefore drive Yule out of business (would this be a kind of competitive synchronism)?

    Christian theology, as a descendent of the Zorostrian/Manachean tradition, is pretty much divorced from any connection to the natural world. Christians can move their holidays around whenever they want and still have then make spiritual sense (look at how much Easter varies from year to year).

    Pagan spirituality, on the other hand, is fundamentally connected to the natural world. In Europe, pagan Yule was celebrated around December 21st. This is because December 21st is the Winter Solstice, the shortest day / longest night of the year, a fact which sets up all the spiritual connotations of the holiday. It is also possible to keep track of such a date using astronomical observation (Stonehenge or other stone circles), even in a pre-literate society.

    In Greyhawk, the shortest day / longest night is Needfest 4. Needfest 4 is also marked by the midnight eclipse of a full Luna by the shadow of the Oerth, an event visable from all the Flaneass. (Liga is new at this time and on the other side of the Oerth, not visable at midnight).

    On the other hand, nothing of astronomical importance is happening on Sunsebb 25th, and one would need a literate, calender-keeping society to even know that it *was* Sunsebb 25th.

    If the celebration of Yule really came from the Old Faith, from a Flan (pre-literate) druidic tradition, it makes much more sense for it to be celebrated on Needfest 4, not Sunsebb 25.

    On the other hand, in lands with a strong Pholtussian presence, it is entirely possible that a church sanctioned holiday happens on Sunsebb 25 in order to weaken the pagan celebration of Yule...
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    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:00 am  
    Re: Christmas in Greyhawk

    GVDammerung wrote:
    IMC, the celebration is called Yule. It is roughly analogus to "Christmas," being on the 25th of Sunsebb and being a time for the giving of presents and a general feasting and merry-making in the middle of Winter.

    Yule is not associated with any deity, IMC, but is a druidic holiday that is still celebrated, even in areas that have given up on druidism in favor of a particular deity. By this I mean the Old Faith nature worship, not that of Obad-hai or other "druidic deities," although all of these are strong supporters of the Yule tradition.

    GVD


    I like your ideas for this holiday, but as may have been mentioned previously, Needfest is a better date than Sunsebb 25 for a Yule celebration.

    Your use of Sunsebb 25 is an obvious analogy to December 25th and Christmas. But Christmas was not always on December 25th. Originally, Christmas was celebrated on January 7 or 8. The eastern Christian churches still celebrate Christmas in January; a colleague of mine grew up Russian Orthdox in California and celebrated Christmas on January 8th, much to her embarrassment.

    The western (Roman Catholic) church changed the date of Christmas, presumably to coincide more closely with the Pagan celebration of Yule and therefore drive Yule out of business (would this be a kind of competitive synchronism)?

    Christian theology, as a descendent of the Zorostrian/Manachean tradition, is pretty much divorced from any connection to the natural world. Christians can move their holidays around whenever they want and still have then make spiritual sense (look at how much Easter varies from year to year).

    Pagan spirituality, on the other hand, is fundamentally connected to the natural world. In Europe, pagan Yule was celebrated around December 21st. This is because December 21st is the Winter Solstice, the shortest day / longest night of the year, a fact which sets up all the spiritual connotations of the holiday. It is also possible to keep track of such a date using astronomical observation (Stonehenge or other stone circles), even in a pre-literate society.

    In Greyhawk, the shortest day / longest night is Needfest 4. Needfest 4 is also marked by the midnight eclipse of a full Luna by the shadow of the Oerth, an event visable from all the Flaneass. (Liga is new at this time and on the other side of the Oerth, not visable at midnight).

    On the other hand, nothing of astronomical importance is happening on Sunsebb 25th, and one would need a literate, calender-keeping society to even know that it *was* Sunsebb 25th.

    If the celebration of Yule really came from the Old Faith, from a Flan (pre-literate) druidic tradition, it makes much more sense for it to be celebrated on Needfest 4, not Sunsebb 25.

    On the other hand, in lands with a strong Pholtussian presence, it is entirely possible that a church sanctioned holiday happens on Sunsebb 25 in order to weaken the pagan celebration of Yule...
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    Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:33 am  

    Kirt, I believe brings up some good points. However, paganism is still blatantly littered through-out the Christian holidays. Specifically X-Mas and Easter.

    Decorating ones X-Mas tree and painting eggs is deffinitely a sign of pagan influence.

    Moving away from Christian holidays, we also have Halloween. Think of the pagan influence behind that one!! Probably a 99% unaltered pagan holiday, still very popular today, all these years later!
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    Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:16 pm  

    abysslin wrote:
    Kirt, I believe brings up some good points. However, paganism is still blatantly littered through-out the Christian holidays. Specifically X-Mas and Easter.

    Decorating ones X-Mas tree and painting eggs is deffinitely a sign of pagan influence.

    Moving away from Christian holidays, we also have Halloween. Think of the pagan influence behind that one!! Probably a 99% unaltered pagan holiday, still very popular today, all these years later!


    That is the point. The early western christian church incorporated many aspects of pagan celebrations into christian celebrations in order to win over the pagans. You can keep the party and the decorations, you just have to change the guest of honor from the Horned God to Jesus.

    The pagan aspects are most pronounced in the catholic church. They are not so present in the eastern orthodox churches (which never had them) or in the protestant churches (which eliminated them in the process of "reformation" and "puritanism"), until you get to third-generation protestant incarnations like Jehovah's Witness, who don't even celebrate christmas.

    Yes, Christmas, Easter, and Holloween are the big ones. (All Saint's Day was placed to try to cover Halloween (Samhein). Of the eight big pagan holidays...(this is based purely on memory, so should be taken with a grain of salt)

    Samhein (mid fall) ---> All Saint's Day / All Souls Day
    Yule (first winter) ----> Christmas
    Brigit (mid winter) ----> Candlemas
    Eostar (first spring) ----> Easter
    Beltane (mid spring) ----> May Day
    name? (first summer) ----> St. John's Day?
    Lammas (midsummer) ----> Assumption
    Mabon ---> (mid fall) ----> Michaelmas


    Worth noting in the above list that Brigit, a Celtic goddess, was incorporated directly into Catholocism as a saint - that is, the *orignal* St. Brigit was never a person, and that even the English name of Easter comes from the pagan word Eostar. In Spanish, Easter is called variously Holy Sunday, Resurection, or "Pascua" (but the last can also refer to Christmas".
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    Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:02 am  

    There are 8 holidays in paganism for the most part, 8 major Sabbats and 4 minor.
    Samhain is considered the first of the Celtic year, is held on Halloween. Yes the old pagans used to dress up in costumes so that they could scare away the bad spirits, or even confuse them into thinking they were one of them.
    Yule is celebrated at Dec 21st, marking the Winter Solstice. Depending on your variation of paganism, this could also be the first of the year. The decorated tree symbolizes the offerings on the Tree of Life. The holly symbolizes the Holly King, which is one of the dual aspects of the Divinity of the Goddess and God.
    Imbolc is on Feb. 1st. This is the the awakening of the Goddess and her time of climbing in the year.
    Ostara, as I call it, is on March 21st in conjunction with the Easter holiday. Note how Easter always follows the Sunday after the equinox. The painted eggs are used for symbolizing the the Goddess and rebirth.
    Beltane is May Day. The may pole is another very big symbol of fertility, and is for celebrating the Sacred Marriage between the Goddes and the God.
    Summer Soltice is June 21st. Hours of light is at its peak at this time.
    Lughnasadh is on August 1st, as Kirt pointed out Lammas. The is to celebrate the years good harvest, leaving what remains as seed for the next year.
    Autumn Equinox is September 21st. This marks the end of the harvest.
    Also, the hours of light and darkness are equal, gradually sliding into the darker times of the year.
    Now I know this isn't a post about pagan rituals, but all of these holidays, or even some of them, could be used in any campaign. The summer ones tend to revolve around the planting and harvest of the years crops, and as such could be worked into a game. It would just depend on how detailed you would want to get with your campaign. If a farmer in Keoland has a bad year agriculturally, he/she may make more offerings to the appropriate diety at the Autumn Equinox for the next year to be better.
    On another point that Kirt makes about the Horned God.
    Pan has as far as I know been the Horned God, and funny how Christians incorporated all the pagan holidays to win over the followers, the turned one of their major dieties into a really bad guy (ie devil, Satan, etc.).
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    Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:27 pm  

    firenice wrote:

    Ostara, as I call it, is on March 21st in conjunction with the Easter holiday. Note how Easter always follows the Sunday after the equinox.


    To be precise, western christian easter is the first sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox.

    Blessed Be,
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    Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:42 pm  

    I'm a big fan of the Winter Solstice as the prime festival of Pelor. Those who love the Sun should celebrate at the turning of the year, when the Sun begins to climb triumphantly back into the sky.
    Of course I am a big fan of Harry Turtledove's Videssos series (a short story of which appeared in Dragon way back when), and the dualistic faith portrayed there, in which Phos, represented by the sun, has his biggest festival on the Winter Solstice. It just struck me as being perfect for Pelor, and I've developed my campaign concepts from there.
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    Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:03 am  
    Re: Christmas in Greyhawk

    Kirt wrote:
    I like your ideas for this holiday, but as may have been mentioned previously, Needfest is a better date than Sunsebb 25 for a Yule celebration.

    Your use of Sunsebb 25 is an obvious analogy to December 25th and Christmas. But Christmas was not always on December 25th.


    Thank you. You are, of course, correct. I choose the 25th to make stronger the analogy than just saying Yule. I wanted my players to feel a strong resonance with "Christmas." While history does not support the association unstintingly, I choose not to be bound by historical reference. I was going for a "feel."

    Needfest I distinguish as a uniquely "different" holiday with its own "feel." I like having the end of the calendar loaded with holidays as it supports a "holiday season" atmosphere. If I never run any other seasonal adventures, those at the end of the year will carry a "holiday" imprint, if for no other reason, than that I have loaded the calendar and the NPCs will be acting accordingly. Again, this assists in building a particular "feel" for that time of the year, and more generally, helps establish the "reality" of Greyhawk holidays for characters beyond the four "fests," that can be overlooked or too much just mini-months.

    GVD
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