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    Canonfire :: View topic - Telekinesis hurled damage?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Telekinesis hurled damage?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 25, 2012
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    From: Virginia

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    Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:52 pm  
    Telekinesis hurled damage?

    The 5th level wizard spell Telekinesis states that:

    "The spell can provide either a gentle, sustained force or a single short, violent thrust...Damage caused by hurled objects is decide by the DM, but cannot exceed 1 point of damage per caster level."

    The twist is that I'm trying to figure this out for a Ring of Telekinesis with a 100lb weight allowance. The 3.5E rules tell me that for each 200 pounds of an object's weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet, but that's only if it's dropped. Any ideas?
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:12 am  

    Use the base caster level of rings to figure damage at 1 point per level. Per the DMG 2E, rings function at 12th level, so 12 damage per use. Easy peasy.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:17 am  

    Cebrion wrote:
    Use the base caster level of rings to figure damage at 1 point per level. Per the DMG 2E, rings function at 12th level, so 12 damage per use. Easy peasy.


    That was my first thought Ceb, but I made an in-the-field call of 1d12 to add some variance on size/weight of object hurled. Now I'm feeling even that is over powered. The ring can be used at will, so doing a flat 12pts of damage every round seems unbalanced. I guess the thing that gets me is that the rate of movement is 20ft/rnd - a fairly slow projectile speed.

    Sometimes I'll look to other rules for guidance - 3.5E states "You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level)...Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects)." This is incredible - for the ring, 12th caster level, this means the character could hurl 12 objects for a potential 12d6 damage spread over as many targets. Even though the 2E rules cap the hurling damage at 1 pt per caster level, they don't address this idea of multiple projectiles. As long as the total weight of the objects doesn't exceed 100lbs, each object could do up to 12pts damage...

    The 1E rules are completely useless in this situation, stating only "Heavy objects traveling at high speed can be deadly weapons". The idea with this rule is the speed doubles every round.

    I guess the problem I'm having is that the ring is a bit too much for the campaign. I was really focused on the utility of it and it was awarded to the rogue with dreams of all the trickery he could pull off with it. Now it seems to have the most damage potential of any other item currently in the campaign, with unlimited use. Gulp...
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    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:09 am  

    As the DM, whose job it is to keep the campaign balanced, do you have any qualms about limiting its use to three times per day, etc.?

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:31 am  

    Sounds as though you'd get more damage by hovering a 200 lb object above your targets head and letting it drop.

    Difficult in tight spaces, I grant you. Sounds as though you'd get better "results" by using the powers of this ring for something other than an offensive weapon.

    Just my thoughts. Wink
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    Last edited by Mystic-Scholar on Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:04 am  

    Nerdcav,

    I think my colleagues have spoken thoughfully on this question (good one, by the way), but if you are worried about the over-balancing nature of the ring, limited its use is one way to do that, as mentioned earlier. You can also give it charges, as well.

    Telekinesis is handy, limited by the range and weight of the item or object to be handled. I agree with M-S that lifting a person, then dropping them from a great height, is the best way to damage them rather than propelling items at them. For distraction, less massive items could be used, such as rugs, tapestries, a collection of dishware, or even sand and dust to form a cloud or screen.

    -Lanthorn
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
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    From: New Jersey

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    Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:02 pm  

    I would make the caster roll an attack roll for a hurled object. Dropped objects would require a save versus breath weapon in 1 and 2e or a reflex save in 3 or 3.5e.

    I don't see it as that big of a problem unless you have hundreds of pounds of items to throw at someone. Now if the ring bearer or caster is looking to toss individual creatures allow a save versus spell or rod, staff, and wands. In 3 to 3.5 a will save negates the casters ability to affect the individual targeted.

    Later

    Argon
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:25 am  

    I would use the 3.5 version of the spell (which is similar, but just more detailed regarding the hurled object(s) application of the spell), and note that hurled object damage is not automatic- attack rolls are required for each object. These aren't magic missiles after all. The spell is better used to chuck somebody off of a cliff, such that they reach terminal velocity and take 20d6 damage, but they would still get a save vs. spells to avoid being affected at all. A mage could also hurl any affected individual into another individual (which requires a To Hit roll), thus doing damage to both.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:46 am  

    I've come up with a solution to my problem, by way of another problem, so to speak. I've been trying to hash out a unique NPC, which is really a emerald egg magic jar containing a mage/cleric. The next time the ringbearer touches the egg with the hand the ring is on, something interesting is going to occur. Balance will be restored and drama increased. How? Well, as Cebrion has reminded me
    Cebrion wrote:
    You don't need a real reason why that is, because you are the DM! Wink

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