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    Canonfire :: View topic - Why aren't Luna, Celene and the Sun gods?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Why aren't Luna, Celene and the Sun gods?
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 15, 2004
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    Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:59 am  
    Why aren't Luna, Celene and the Sun gods?

    In our real world, many cultures revered the moon and sun as gods.

    In Greyhawk, the gods are no less personified because they are given names. You've got Luna and her Handmaiden, Celene; and you've got the sun which I think is called Sol (am I making that up?).

    Anyway, in a world full of gods, and with humankind's natural inclination to worship the moon (usually a female) and the sun (usually a male), shouldn't the moons and sun of Oerth be gods?

    I know you've got gods "to do with" the sun and moon, but they are never described as "being" the sun/moon.

    What say you folks? Coz this has come up in my game and I'm struggling to explain why the moon/sun ain't gods.

    Thanks.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 24, 2004
    Posts: 28
    From: Italy

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    Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:41 am  

    Well, there are Pelor for the Flan pantheon, Pholtus as Oeridian god of sun and moon, Nola for the Touv, Sehanine for the Seldarine...
    I think it's more than enough... Wink
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 19, 2003
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    Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:33 am  

    Ancient societies worshiped the sun and moon in the absence of more compelling choices.

    Clerics that worship Pholtus get spells and other benefits, which likewise are bestowed upon his worshippers. By contrast, those that decide to worship the sun (which, as in real life, is not a god) get nothing.

    Inhabitants of the Flanaess would figure things out pretty quickly, methinks :)

    Regards,

    Jack
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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    Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:00 am  

    Excellent post, Baggins. Happy I completely agree with your thoughts.

    I think Pelor and a Sun god are pretty much, or could be, one and the same.

    I think Luna and Celene are wide open for development, however. Greyhawk lacks a lunar deity(ies) with the prominence you would think would be accorded such an astronomical constant.

    GVD Smile
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    GVD
    CF Admin

    Joined: Oct 14, 2003
    Posts: 586
    From: Rel Astra

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    Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:24 am  

    Concerning the sun & the moons and 2 minutes of your time. (it's short)

    You may find my (well received) Ogremeet article very interesting. It deffinitely leaves open ends for such reverence of those 3 celestial bodies.


    OGREMEET

    With just a minor adjustment to the Ogre's preferred religion, you could have an entire region of the race devoted to the celestial bodies solely on the power of Ogremeet.

    I'm actually finding myself quite interested in that approach, and since I haven't introduced the locale into my campaign as of yet, I may very well change it up some.
    _________________
    Kneel before me, or you shall be KNELT!


    Last edited by abysslin on Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:04 am; edited 2 times in total
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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    From: British Isles

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    Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:39 am  

    I haven't found a need to have the sun and moons as deities themselves but there is no reason why you couldnt. Much Like Beory IS the Oerth but has many deities of nature as well there could feasibly be a Sun Father and then a selection of sun deities. However, the Oerth I think is more fitting to be personified as the people have a much closer and intimate bond with her and sometimes I think that it is this close and intimate interaction that maybe brought sentience to Oerth in the form of Beory.

    The Moons and Sun are much more distant so it seems more appropriate that they are just planets but planets who have deities associated with them. In Greek mythology Helios the Sun didn't play a very direct role in most myths but was more just the father of various lesser gods and beings such as Circe and Aeaetes. I believe he does directly interfere to save his grand-daughter Medea in her eponymous play.

    My point is I think that if you wish to deify the Sun and Moon then that is fine but they should play no greater role than they currently do...i.e: practically none. Perhaps they were once active deities who have grown idle or slumber in the wake of the newer gods. Pelor would be much like Apollo is to Helios.

    THere seem to be plenty of sundeities...Pelor, Lydia, Pholtus but no real moon deities other than Sehanine. In my campaign I have made Ehlonna a borderline intermediate / greater goddess and added the moon to her portfolio where she replaces Sehanine as the elven goddess. She is very much like Artemis. I am tempted to add the moon to Llerg's portfolio and make him the patron god of were creatures although Ehlonna is the patroness of good lycanthropes.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:48 pm  

    Thank you for the responses.

    Speaking of Beory . . .

    I read a nice creation myth featuring Beory and Nerull in one of the Oerth Journals but can't find it. Could someone please tell me which Oerth Journal this was? I think it was in an article about Druids or Old-School Bards?

    Thanks.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:59 pm  

    Baggins wrote:
    I read a nice creation myth featuring Beory and Nerull in one of the Oerth Journals but can't find it. Could someone please tell me which Oerth Journal this was? I think it was in an article about Druids or Old-School Bards?


    Ah, it's in Oerth Journal 15.

    Paul J. Stormberg writes:

    ". . . Beory (Oerth) had two husbands - the brothers Pelor
    (Sol, Light/Day) and Nerull (Dark/Night). Although she desired
    to take Pelor as her husband, Beory could not wed him without
    inciting the jealousy of his brother Nerull. Thus, she married both,
    hoping to achieve a peaceful balance between the brothers. Her
    only stipulation was that she would not bear children for Nerull.
    The brothers agreed and thus Beory began her eternal wedding
    dance, dividing her time equally between Pelor and Nerull. To the
    Flannae this represents the eternal cycle of night and day.
    After a time, Beory and Pelor begat Rao, Berei, Allitur, Zodal, Obadhai
    (the five* “wandering stars”), and all living plants and animals
    of Oerth, including the Flannae. Using trickery, Nerull sired two
    daughters by Beory, Luna (Mistress, The Great Moon) and Celene
    (Handmaiden)."

    So I say, if Beory (the Oerth) is a god and is sisters to Luna and Celene, then it stands to reason that the latter two are also gods!
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