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    Canonfire :: View topic - Invisibility - When does it end?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Invisibility - When does it end?
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 09, 2001
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    Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:37 am  
    Invisibility - When does it end?

    OK, I've looked for this and can't find it. So, I thought I'd post the question here, as I do not know where else to do it. Since I play 2nd ed, I figured it's the right place.

    Anyway, the question I have is, when does Invisibility end? The obvious things like making an attack are...obvious. It's the other stuff that isn't so obvious. What spell-casting would be considered an attack? What magic item use? Why is this so darned vague in the first place? :)
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2007
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    Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:05 pm  



    Last edited by BlueWitch on Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Master Greytalker

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    Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:29 pm  

    Yes, stoneskin's another one of these. I know that being the DM I can pretty much do as I please, but I was just curious how others dealt with this and if there was a list somewhere of all the things which would constitute an attack. For instance, the action which prompted this question was a player using a Wand of Slow. Now, it's not necessarily targeting anyone, though it clearly will affect various individuals in the AoE. So, wouild that make it go away?

    Personally, I'm somewhat reluctant to make an action cancel invisibility without said action being of a more direct nature. However, I don't want it to end up being too powerful, virtually never being cancelled at all without true attacks. Hm, I wonder if making a list of those actions which make invsibility end wouldn't be such a bad idea.....?
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:53 pm  

    Yep. Attacks, dispel or 24 hours is up kills off invisibility. Stoneskin does last forever potentially. If you think that is too powerful then you are not attacking the caster often enough, or are not sucking diamond dust cost out of their bank account. The cost of diamond dust adds up.

    One fun little note: a Witch PC in my campaign had pissed off an NPC thief in the party by casting a not so nice spell on him, just to mess with him (which he did not appreciate). Being a Witch, the PC was shunned and avoided most places she went. The next town the party entered, the Witch was off on her own when a small group of street urchins threw pebbles at her and called her names, and then ran away. She didn't think anything of it, until a little bit later something slammed into the back of her head and everything went black. She woke up straddled by the thief who had a dagger to her throat. "Don't use your magic upon me in that way ever again. Do we have an understanding." "Yes." "Good."

    And they lived happily ever after. Ah yes, the lowly street urchin, a thief's best friend, and whoever thought that a handful of pebbles could cost a PC a couple pouches full of gold pieces in diamond dust cost? Laughing
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    GreySage

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    Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:36 pm  

    I've typically allowed any defensive magics (like Shield or Mirror Image) as well as divinations (such as Detect Magic and Know Alignment) to be cast by invisible casters without dispelling the effect since it is not an attack.

    -Lanthorn
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    Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:20 pm  

    I'm kind of looking at it like it's basically illusion magic, which is "disrupted" by anything that draws too much attention. At least, that's how I'm seeing it. Thus, attacks are obvious, as then have a point of origin, whether melee or missile. Same for any spells which have a visible origin, like fireball, magic missile, etc. Now, something like Haste or Slow, that is perhaps subjective.

    In the case in question, a wand of slow was used. I wonder, does it fire a ray, which then lights up the whole area of effect? Kind of thinking about old Star Trek when they used the ship's phasers to knock out a whole block of guys or something. Or does this have no visible effect? If that's the case, I see no rationale for having it cancel invisibility.
    GreySage

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    Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:16 pm  

    I'd consider that any attack, personally, and thus negate the Invisibility spell.

    -Lanthorn
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:01 pm  

    ragnar wrote:
    I'm kind of looking at it like it's basically illusion magic, which is "disrupted" by anything that draws too much attention. At least, that's how I'm seeing it. Thus, attacks are obvious, as then have a point of origin, whether melee or missile. Same for any spells which have a visible origin, like fireball, magic missile, etc. Now, something like Haste or Slow, that is perhaps subjective.

    Invisibility is negated by any attack, anything offensive. Slow is an offensive spell, so it breaks the invisibility spell. The invisibility spell is there for stealth, but also to give an advantage on the attack (namely in being able to get the jump on one's enemies). The invisibility spell is not negated by drawing too much attention that isn't an actual attack, but it can allow people around a chance to know that there is an invisible individual somewhere in the vicinity.
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    GreySage

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    Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:56 pm  

    Ragnar, it may also help you to keep in mind that it also does NOT conceal light emanating from an invisible character, nor cloak scent or noise, either. Creatures with very acute senses (ex: dragons) are likely unaffected, and those with great hearing (ex: dogs, owls) and smell (ex: trolls, dogs) won't be fooled that there is something lurking in their midst.

    Furthmore, the 1st edition DMG has a great table (pg 60) for creatures with a large HD and/or Intelligence for negating invisibility effects. Check it out if you can. I have found it useful.

    -Lanthorn
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