At the moment my campaign is getting rather military oriented. Does anyone know, or have any speculations of titles/ranks for any of the following nations:
The military ranks that I've seen used most often in D&D are (in ascending order) Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, and General.
There don't seem to be any hard-and-fast rules for levels or age for these ranks, but I've come up with some guidelines for my own campaign.
Sergeants are normally in charge of at least ten fighter-types. They tend to be at least 3rd level, though I had no upper limit (so a 15th level sergeant was possible, and a nasty surprise).
Lieutenants are normally of high- or noble-birth, OR they were exceptional Sergeants. The "born" lieutenants are around 4th or 5th level, though this could go lower for near-royalty (akin to today's British Princes). Higher level lieutenants are rare; they are usually promoted to Captain. The "made" lieutenants run about two levels higher. Lieutenants typically have a handful of Sergeants under them; I use one per level.
Captains are also usually noble-born, though talented veterans can become Captains. Young Captains are noble, old Captains are veterans (and much more dangerous). Captains command companies of 80 to 200 men, depending on unit type (heavy infantry, artillery, light cavalry, etc.) and the host nation.
Generals tend to be given their rank for military AND political reasons. Few, if any Generals are not noble-born. And levels vary widely, from 8th to 15th level.
Perrenland can't have large companies bottlenecked in their mountainous terrain, so would have smaller companies. Sergeants and Lieutenants have more authority, as they have to operate independently of their Captain more often. Generals would be very high level, capable of running the entire country for a time should the need arise. Officers are important, but the smaller Perren units don't lose much effectiveness without an officer present.
Highfolk has strong influences from the elves and the rangers, thus having smaller companies as well. Sergeants, and occasionally Lieutenants, lead patrols and small unit actions and therefore have almost total authority over their men. When companies need to be formed, the Captains have little difficulty controlling their men as long as their orders go through the Lieutenants and Sergeants. Generals would be almost unheard of, as no one leader could get so many individuals under his central rulership. Officers are great for directing communications and larger units, but aren't really needed on patrols and skirmishes.
Furyondy and Veluna both have the manuever room for large companies, and the Captains are nearly always present. This leads to greater organization and better force-on-force performance, but the Sergeants and Lieutenants have a harder time keeping the unit together should the Captain fall. Generals tend towards the mid-range of the levels, but can manuever their commands with practised ease. Since the Generals are noble-born, they should also hold titles roughly equivalent to Baron.
The armies of Iuz are run through the officers, though Sergeants exist. Size and ability to intimidate matter more than skill in battle, so a bugbear sergeant would bully and force the goblin soldiers into combat. Officers show their skills, since the nobility is pretty much decimated, so Lieutenants have better martial skills than most armies, but usually do not have the authority handed down by their Captains. Captains are lords of thier own little armies, typically around 250 troops or so, and are loathe to give any control to their able (but untrustworthy) Lieutenants. Generals are picked more for their loyalty and ability to suck up to Iuz, since he directly controls the most lethal of his forces and plans the military manuevers himself. The Generals are simply mouthpieces for The Old One, and are not very versatile or talented. Killing officers is a sure way to throw Iuz forces into disarry.
Of course, none of this is canon. It's just what an old soldier threw together to give a military "feel" to a game for his civilian friends. _________________ There is no problem that cannot be resolved with the application of more firepower.
The PC's are actually rasing a small force in teh Western Sepia Uplands to assault an Iuz Fort and then possibly the headwaters of the Deepstil. There's 9 PC's (ang 3-4 lvl), an NPC Bard (1st) and two Perrenland Merc's (both 1st) versus a 9F General, 7F Captain, 5C, 2C, 8M, 2M, 60 1F Light Cavalry, 10 Heavy Cavalry, 268 Orcs(w/ a 5th lvl Shaman), 2 Orog, 9 ogres 2 Hill Giants, 3 Riders of Iuz (3F, 2 2F w/ a kit I created) and 4 War Dogs.
And that's just at the 1st fort!
If I were going to build an army orginization as a PC I'd probably institute a rank structure as follows:
Field Marshall
General
Brigadier
Sword Captain
Captain
Sword Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Sword Sergeant
Sergeant
Sword Corporal
Corporal
Footman/Spearman/Swordsman/Pikeman etc. (all exchanged for sowrds on up)
Recruit
As for levels, IF it was my personal army, you couldn't buy a rank. I believe a lot of Free Companies in Medieval days were like that.
US Navy Quartermaster Second Class turned US Army Warrant Officer Seth A. Roark
My approach (and the approach of Gygax, as shown in the original DMG) is in line with FirePower's post.
Modern ranks come from requirements to standardize duties, seniority and pay within very large military organizations; medieval societies rarely had such needs. Overall unit commanders were usually nobles who would appoint lieutenants however they saw fit, and to whom they would delegate duties (and titles) however they saw fit. In fact, historically these leaders would typically delegate all operational responsibility to these lieutenants. limiting their own concerns to affairs of court.
What these lieutenants and their subordinates were called would differ from nation to nation (and even unit to unit), but overall organization and assignment of duties remained simple.
Consider this orgainization: 10 soldiers could be led by a sergeant, five sergeants by a lieutenant, five lieutenants by a captain -- one captain handles 250 people. Appoint one as senior to four others, and you have a unit of 1000. A few of these 'senior captains' could command the entire armed forces of a nation -- we'd probably call them colonels or generals (IMHO).
An interesting question. Does GH have any standing armies sufficient to have developed military ranks beyond the minimal needs of feudal armies, where a noble lord, his noble retainers, and peasant levies join with other such to form a large mob as much as an army.
Based on the early Dragon articles, I think the Great Kingdom had a professional standing army that was supplemented by noble levies. It therefore follows that the United Kingdom of Ahlissa and the Great Kingdom of Northern Aerdy would continue something of this tradition. By the same token, Nyrond would have a similar tradition.
Furyondy is an interesting case.
Scenario 1 -
Furyondy likely would not have had a professional standing military prior to the Greyhawk Wars. After the wars with the declaration of the Great Northern Crusade, Furyondy would have quickly developed the core of a professional standing military as it would be seemingly impossible to both maintain and so quickly advance the cause of the Great Northern Crusade without one. Even allowing for a "collapse" after the Flight of the Fiends, Iuz continues to substantially hold his own, suggesting that the Furyondians are still up against a considerable opponent.
Scenario 2 -
Conversely, that Iuz is not finished might be attributed to the lack of a professional standing army in Furyondy. In which case, unless the Furyondians are stupid, they will be looking to address this issue. In which case, a Furyondian civil war is all but a certainty as Belvor attempts to consolidate power sufficient to best prosecute the Great Northern Crusade in the face of opposition from the Great Families, particularly those nowhere near the front.
I personally like Scenario 2 and use it IMC.
Keoland likely has no standing professional army. Its history would make such highly problematic to its neighbors.
IMO, then. You would have advanced rank structures in Aerdi and Nyrond (although present day Nyrond is anyone's guess). Furyondy would be developing such if not there already. Keoland, alone among the major powers, would be blissfully dreaming the feudal dream of noble levies of cavalry and "the rabble" - feudal infantry made up of peasants weilding pole arms, little more than modified farm implements.
In every case, however, any professional standing army would be a core around which noble levies and peasant levies would still need to form to prosecute anything resembling a major war.
To answer GVD's question about professional standing armies in Greyhawk...
Excuse me while I dust off my memory...
I'm pretty positive that the Great Kingdom had one. And Nyrond had a pretty substantial one as well. Almor HAD one, but it was small and presumably overrun before that good country was destroyed.
I seem to remember the Shield Lands having a standing army of cavalry to augment the Knights, but I can't imagine them surviving Iuz's assault.
And I'm pretty sure that the Gran March has one as well, else there would not be a split between the two "factions" of the military there.
All in all, a standing army seems to hurt a nation more than help it in Greyhawk. Nyrond's quite probably helped to bankrupt that nation, Gran March's is fighting with itself, and the other's belong to nations that no longer exist.
Please excuse any errors, as it's been a while since I looked at the old Greyhawk material (the '80 folio and the '83 boxed set), and I may be remembering details from my campaigns back in the day.
Way off canon, a few of my armies had Corporals (peasant warriors who stayed on after the war), Sergeants Major (veteran Sergeants too unpopular to be Lieutenants), and Field Marshals (less political but more capable than the higher-ranking Generals).
Navies had Sailors, Ensigns, Lieutenants, Captains, and occasionally Admirals. Think "Master and Commander"; I'm sure there were higher enlisted ranks, but we never see them.
Since I'm not a Navy man myself, I'm probably way off base on that last one. Maybe Tiernan can clear that part up for us.
Sorry abysslin, Majors didn't begin showing up widely here on Earth until the last few centuries. Neglected, yes. But you can always promote yours to Field Marshals or Generals! What a bargain, huh?
And now I'm off to shine my combat boots... _________________ There is no problem that cannot be resolved with the application of more firepower.
The military professionalism of the nations of Greyhawk have remained unclear at best.
IMO no nation has a totally professional force but a mixture based upon classic feudal models that vary depending on place and dominate culture.
Most nations have "elite" core formations of superior training supplemented by conscripted troop formations.
Countries requested:
Oeridians: Aerdy
Have the most organization and we have the most information about their command structure: which divides the military into separate branches and defined armies, each with it's own command structure.
Heavy Cavalry is considered a royal elite troop type
Army
General
Praetor
Major
Captain
Tribune
Major Serjeant
Serjeant
Corporal
Legionnaire
Navy
Admiral
Commander
Lieutenant
Ensign
Chief Petty Officer
Petty Officer
Seaman 1st class
Seaman 2nd class
Seaman 3rd class
Feudal Militia Units
Local Lord
Captain
Lieutenant
Serjeant
Soldier
Information from the LGG Nyrond Site.
Furyondy
Has royal troops supplemented by noble levies and given it's historical links to Aerdy, use of the militia chain of command is the best guess.
In the Marklands and modules set in furyondy the Aerdy army chain of command is not used (no legionaires) however the militia (for the army) and naval chain of command in part are used, so it would be safe to assume these were adopted but not the Army titles perhaps to avoid political resentment, Furyondy did revolt after all.
Perrenland
Uber-Auszegan - The supreme commander of Perrenland Forces
Auchauszegan - This level forms the second in command
Ubergrosse - these are the Auszegan commanders
Auchgrosse - the first of the Geld-Auszegan
Uberfahnlein - this rank is the last of the Pro-Auszegan level
Auchfahnlein - the Auchfahnlein is the second in command of a Fahnlein
Uberdritte - the first of the Pro-Auszegan ranks - the first officer rank
Auchdritte - the Auchdritte is second in charge of a DritteRotte
Uberrotter - the Uberrotter commands a Rotte
Auchrotter - the Auchrotter is the second in charge of a Rotte
Rotter - the basic military rank - a member of a Rotte
Nuer - the rank given to a 17 year old upon entry to a training academy
Information from the LGG Perrenland Site
Highfolk
Seems to have little organization at all, being made up of a citizen militia.
Based along racial units commanded by local leaders.
Veluna
Is a theocracy but if it has an independant military is unknown but Veluna does field well trained, disciplined and equipped troops from the sources available.
Iuz
From the sources available the forces of Iuz vary wildly, a command structure as such doesn't exist, leadership belongs to whoever can inspire enough fear and loyalty to be obeyed. Discipline exists at the level the "commander" whoever that is, can impose it.
Some Points:
The SB titles (Father, Uncle and Cousin) denote rank within the Hierarchy of the Brotherhood not the military.
The SB supplement has no outlined chain of command written although levels of professionalism and equipment are suggested by boiling down the prose:
Citizen Army: Pure Suel, excellent training and equipment, rarely risked
Sub-citizen Army: Jungle suel and other suel subjects, given "advisors", some training and equipment.
Humanoid troops : Given a suel "overseer", poor if any equipment (mostly battlefield looted)
Navy is even harder to gauge only a few references but I feel we can use the above as a template for fighting effectiveness:
Tilvanot Fleet: SB crewed, excellent ships, well disciplined
Lordship of the Isles Fleet: Suel crewed SB advisors, good ships, fair discipline (pirate history)
Sea Princes Fleet: coerced crews, SB overseers, excellent ships, poor discipline due to repression and force.
Gran March has a substantial Army, and the LG site has extensive treatment of it that I found very useful, though I do not run an LG game. I think the infighting between two "factions," is amongst the Knights of the Watch, and their off shoot, the Knights of the Dispatch.
These groups were originally the same, but I think the Gran March army (with it's prized cavalry and "Gran March Style,") were sepreated around the time self rule was instituted.
I also get the feeling that Keoland has a standing army, though it is small compared to its potential army of levies and such (small by Keoish standards at least)
Samwise would probably know.
Back to the original question, has the LG sites for the countries of interest posted anything?
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