I've read and reread the spell numerous times, but always open to interpretations, or personal DM rulings.
1) Is the wizard's body 'inert' or in a state of stasis while his psyche has possessed a host body? It doesn't mention anything about that. I'd imagine it is and is quite vulnerable.
2) I know the caster cannot discern specific people based on their energy fields (only relative strengths), and that specific locations cannot be determined either, but thinking that it should be possible for a wizard to determine proximity of energies relative to himself (within the crystal receptacle). For instance, I think it should be possible for a wizard to sense which energies are closer and which are further away from his own life force within the crystal.
3) Random (and sinister), but related to this spell. If an undead wizard (ex: spectre, vampire, lich) manages to take over the physical body of a living 'host' can that undead caster then enter holy ground (like a church)? For instance, a vampire couldn't possibly step foot inside a church or place of (holy) worship, but using a Magic Jar spell to inhabit the body of a living host, can the undead spell-caster then do so?
I've read and reread the spell numerous times, but always open to interpretations, or personal DM rulings.
1) Is the wizard's body 'inert' or in a state of stasis while his psyche has possessed a host body? It doesn't mention anything about that. I'd imagine it is and is quite vulnerable.
Yes, the wizard's body is completely vulnerable and not in stasis. It can be damaged/killed as easily as an individual that is unconscious/held, and even if left alone for long enough the body will starve to death.
lanthorn wrote:
2) I know the caster cannot discern specific people based on their energy fields (only relative strengths), and that specific locations cannot be determined either, but thinking that it should be possible for a wizard to determine proximity of energies relative to himself (within the crystal receptacle). For instance, I think it should be possible for a wizard to sense which energies are closer and which are further away from his own life force within the crystal.
The caster only knows what is in the total range of the spell, but not where they are, so they can't tell the position of different targets. The caster's soul in the gem cannot discern things like a ghost can, which uses its actual senses to choose a specific target for possession (it requiring no transition to a soul receptacle and then an undiscerning transition from there to a body). The spell blatantly tells us this already:
PHB 2E Magic Jar Spell Description wrote:
...however, the exact creature types and relative physical positions cannot be determined."
Low hanging fruit there.
Lanthorn wrote:
3) Random (and sinister), but related to this spell. If an undead wizard (ex: spectre, vampire, lich) manages to take over the physical body of a living 'host' can that undead caster then enter holy ground (like a church)? For instance, a vampire couldn't possibly step foot inside a church or place of (holy) worship, but using a Magic Jar spell to inhabit the body of a living host, can the undead spell-caster then do so?
If the lich is evil (and they usually are), and the wards on the holy ground work against evil, they will work on the possessed body. If the wards are against undead they will not work on the now "lich" if the physical form that is possessed is not undead. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
It seems to me that the more powerful the caster, the more tricky it is to cast this spell with regards to possession. Since range and area of effect are based on level, both increase with higher level casters. At first this seems to be a purely beneficial thing, but since the spell states (I did read the description, but hear me out) that relative positions are not determined, the more powerful caster has an even greater number of potential targets to encompass in his/her 'field of possession.' It seems this is not a spell meant for relative pinpoint accuracy, and if one cannot sense which auras are closer to the crystal receptacle at all, then the caster really is 'shooting blind' when trying to possess a host. The higher your level, the greater the chance you will do this.
For instance, a 9th lvl caster can only sense auras in a 90 foot radius, while a 12 lvl caster has a 120 foot radius sensing ability. Thusly, even though the higher caster can sense potentially MORE targets, and since the caster has no knowledge where they are (which I personally don't like...I'd think the wizard should at least be able to sense auras direction relative to self...example, there are 5 minor life forces close to you, 7 minor life forces further away, etc.), he has more randomness inherent in targeting a victim than a 9th lvl bloke. I hope that made sense...
Again, this is a RADIUS effect, so the sensing power is in a 360 degree circle. And if you cannot perceive life (or unlife) auras relative to self, then this makes one completely random, highly chaotic spell. And surely not one to use in combat (even if you are far from the direct action) b/c you may end up "Jarring" an ally!
It is not a highly chaotic spell, as a magic jar spell is usually used for one reason, and one reason only- to possess the most powerful thing in range- which the spell does detect well enough. It is not your usual combat spell, but it can be devastating for a bunch of PCs to have to start taking down their own people using as little violence as possible, and adventurers tend to be kitted out with very useful stuff so this is not exactly guaranteed to be easy. It is a very powerful spell, but like anti-magic shell it is best used in the right situation.
Such as by a lich that is hidden and safe (various permanent protections on a hidden room/compartment where his body is, and with a permanent non-detection over it all) who casts the spell on a minion of known (and powerful) physical qualities (a giant troll perhaps). That minion's body is then used as a proxy to do bad things to interlopers/adventurers. If that body is killed/incapacitated, then the lich possesses an adventurer and wreaks more havoc. Keep that up until the adventures figure out what is going on and deal with it (if they are even prepared to do so), and as a final resort return the lich's soul to his own body, which then steps forth to lay more smack down.
Or there doesn't even need to be a lich, as the spell doesn't exactly need to end...
"The spell ends when the wizard shifts from the jar to his own body."
...so it could be that PCs walk into an forgotten complex of some sort, and find an ancient (and long, long dead) sorcerer's corpse somewhere. Long ago, betrayed and poisoned, the ancient spellcaster managed to stagger within range of his soul receptacle, and cast magic jar as his final living act. His soul still remains trapped within the soul receptacle, and knowing his body died he won't be returning to it (which is what ends the spell). And guess who just so happened to wander into range of the soul receptacle's detection capabilities? Yep, adventurers who for some reason felt compelled to explore the place.
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Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Cebrion, you gave solidity to a potentially sinister idea I had kicked around with a truly powerful spell-caster in the form of Old Mother Grubb, from Greyhawk City. And you answered one of my accessory questions...
-Does the spell end if the host body is killed but others are still in range of the crystal receptacle?
As I guessed, the spell only ceases when the soul returns to the original caster, OR the caster's spirit force is beyond the range of the crystal and it cannot reach it if the host body is killed.
It seems to me that the possessing wizard should, first and foremost, safeguard his/her body before possessing another body, all the while after placing the crystal in a hidden locale (perhaps independent of the site where the body is located). If the host body is slain, return to said hidden gemstone (thereby ejecting the host's spirit, and thus, essentially, killing him/her), and then repossesses another host body...repeat as needed. I think that is what you were mentioning above.
This is what I intend Old Mother Grubb to do to 'repay' the adventurers in my campaign who demolished her House of Fortune, destroyed her vampire brood, and began events which led to the complete destruction of her haven. These adventurers have sought refuge in the Temple of Pelor (sanctified ground, and warded against those of Evil bent), and are quite beyond her direct reprisals. She's already failed once to exact her revenge after her Charmed minions (City guards) were thwarted and the clerics are stepping up security with spells and increased precautions.
I intend to have her Magic Jar a living host (one of her enslaved minions...likely some scum from Old City or the River Quarter) and use it to enter the Church under the cover of night (magical protections enacted against the cleric's wards), her magical arsenal at the ready to unleash magical devastation upon her foes...
Her spirit will be inside the crystal receptacle nearby, off Church grounds, hidden safely (and perhaps magically Invisible, just in case).
That seemed better than trying to possess some random person from within the Church itself...
Her spirit will be inside the crystal receptacle nearby, off Church grounds, hidden safely (and perhaps magically Invisible, just in case).
Not sure what you mean by that, as the gem would be empty when Mother Grubb's soul is in another individual- none of it remains behind in the receptacle. The other person's soul goes in the gem. Destroy that gem, and that other person's soul dies and passes on, while Mother Grubb's soul would be permanently in a new body...at least until she casts magic jar again (hmm, it is almost as if I have thought about this before now ).
Of course only an evil person would do something like this purposely though, and Mother Grubb is....oh, right, she's not very good.
There could be consequences (divine or otherwise) for doing such a thing though. For instance, the soul of a vampire being innately linked to the Negative Plane in un-life could mean that the newly occupied form perhaps ages/withers more quickly than usual (or that it will slowly become undead itself), it not being prepared to hold a soul with such a connection. People might notice that eventually. The new form might also give off a hint of residual necromantic magic, cluing in certain inquisitive folks that something is not quite right with the individual. All kinds of story to make use of there. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Her spirit will be inside the crystal receptacle nearby, off Church grounds, hidden safely (and perhaps magically Invisible, just in case).
Not sure what you mean by that, as the gem would be empty when Mother Grubb's soul is in another individual- none of it remains behind in the receptacle.
Quite right, Ceb! I had a brain fart when I was typing.
So, in essence, so long as the gem receptacle is nearby within range, the possessing wizard can attack and repossess multiple targets. This is pretty sinister indeed. What makes it even more dangerous is the fact that the wizard can, if the host body allows, USE SPELLS (again, if components are used, these must be present with the new body, which is doubtful).
Methinks that Old Mother Grubb is going to exact a HIGH toll against these 'do-gooders' who crossed her...
While not 2e, you may want to look up Jon Pickens' additional spells based around the school of Possession (for which Magic Jar is the only example in the 1e core books), as detailed in Polyhedron #27 (in "Dominion Spells").
Well, I enacted Old Mother Grubb's unholy vengeance...possessing a Rhennee henchmen (Charmed minion) as a living vessel, and she did quite a number to many hapless victims within the Temple before she had to retreat. The Pelorians are understandably shaken by this unforeseen attack, thinking they were 'safe' in their holy sanctuary...now it's their turn to counter, if they can find her, that is!
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