The Lostdark underlies portions of the Sea of Dust and the Sulhauts. It is the most remote and least explored region of the Underoerth relative to the Flanaess, though it may also be the most extensive.
The Lostdark is part natural and part artificial, the result of thousands of years of delving, exploration, and mining by the Suel Imperium and their servant races. The caverns and tunnels beneath the Sea of Dust are primarily of the Upperdark, and unlike the barren surface, heavily populated. The passages beneath the Sulhauts, however, plunge deep into the Oerth in a vertical maze of cracks, crevices, and abysses that lead some to speculate on a prehistorical cataclysm there that sundered the Oerth.
Grimlocks, derro, dopplegangers, skulks, jermalaine, and drow are the most commonly encountered races of the Lostdark. The Sulhaut drow are implacable foes of the so-called "Suel-spawn" races and mount frequent hunting parties into the shallower caverns. The other races return the sentiment.
Civilization has only the slightest hold here. Grimlocks, skulks, and jermalaine live in family-oriented tribes, while the dopplegangers have their own primitive society dispersed throughout the grimlocks and skulks. The derro are ruled by their savants, and most of their strongholds are the former mines of the Imperium. The savants are keen collectors of magical lore, and a few derro outposts are located beneath former Suel metropolises, which the derro scavenge for relics.
The Sulhaut drow are likewise less advanced than their Flanaess kin. Whereas in the east the drow worship and honor spiders are representatives of Lolth, here the relationship is both deeper and more common. Every drow in the Sulhaut has at least one giant spider as a constant companion, and the needs of the spider are equal to or more important than those of the drow "master". The elegant buildings and magical construction of the east is replaced by caverns festooned in webbing and crawling with arachnids; the tended fields and slave-pens are instead great masses of ooze or pits of foul acidic water: the Sulhaut drow, like their spider-brethren, are entirely carnivorous and not above cannibalism when hunger is great.
Wow, Nell. I really enjoyed that post. I was somewhat disappointed when I reached the end. I'm sticking my neck out here for the block, but is that an original as I've never read of any such place.
I've come across quite a few statements here and there where people say drow have been 'done to death.' But I've always enjoyed them, and this is an interesting twist. I'd really like to see more about this place. The skulks are a nice touch too. I've always found them rather interesting. _________________ Never get into fights with ugly people, they have nothing to lose.
The Sulhaut drow are implacable foes of the so-called "Suel-spawn" races and mount frequent hunting parties into the shallower caverns. . . .
The savants are keen collectors of magical lore, and a few derro outposts are located beneath former Suel metropolises, which the derro scavenge for relics. . . .
The Sulhaut drow are likewise less advanced than their Flanaess kin. Whereas in the east the drow worship and honor spiders are representatives of Lolth, here the relationship is both deeper and more common. Every drow in the Sulhaut has at least one giant spider as a constant companion, and the needs of the spider are equal to or more important than those of the drow "master".
In the above quoted material, I have isolated what I like best about this piece. And I like it generally.
I like the idea of "Suel-spawn." That sounds cool and conjures all kinds of neat ideas and associations.
I like the idea of "scavenging" the remains of the Suel civilization. There is a "post-apocalyptic" feel to this but nothing too "Gamma World" or like that. A nice threading of the needle.
I really like the idea that the spiders are more important than their "masters" and accompany every drow. This has a nicely ambiguous "are they or aren't they" quality about who is in charge that is spooky. I would not confirm it either way. Let DMs play with it back and forth.
I think the Suel underdark should have a "spooky" or "haunted" quality.
I would suggest that large portions are "empty" or seemingly "uninhabited." No one knows just why that is. Not enough inhabitants in the area to fill up the space? Or is it something more? Throw in some rumors of "vanishings" or "feelings of being watched" or of "presences." Add reports of "wierd encounters" with unknown monster types. In short, play up the goosebumps.
Really Nice Nell. I like the other ideas that you brought up as well GVD. Kind of gives the whole place a semi Ravenloft feel horror wise with out the need for the gothic influence. Semi-civilized Drow; would their magic be less refined than thier cousins in other parts of the underdark? More agressively oriented than the subtle use that other Drow use? Cannibalistic Drow; Not only do they want to enslave you but plump you up to eat. Like I said Nell that is some great work and I will definately be incorporating some this into my own campaign at some point.. Now go finish OJ
I'm sticking my neck out here for the block, but is that an original as I've never read of any such place.
More or less original. Roger E. Moore wrote an article in Dragon awhile back about the various Suel-spawn (though they weren't called that, and the grimlocks weren't numbered among them). The drow/suel-spawn enimity seems natural and it ties into my theory about the war between the elves and the descent of the drow.
Quote:
I was somewhat disappointed when I reached the end.
More to come. I got distracted last night and just as I started working on this, my wife came home and discovered I had forgotten to make dinner. The computer went out of sight very very quickly.
I wanted to get something up, though, so that's what I could hammer out in the 20 minutes before work this morning. I'll expand on it a little more and name a few places, hopefully tonight (she's going out to celebrate a friend's birthday, dinner included. I'm sorta safe ... though the litter boxes do need to be cleaned.)
Wow! You just took one of the most storied but least useful places on Oerik and stood it on its head, completely reinventing it for me. Thanks, neither i nor my unsuspecting players will ever look at the SoD the same.
Eh, I'm one of those that's had it up to here with the whole drow/Lolth thing. I've posted previously as to how I've given drow at least a different look in my campaign. For this region, can't we extend the White Kingdom westward, or is it to be isolated from this Underdark area? Further, while skulks fill this void to an extent, I agree that if this area IS an isolated one, you'd do well to introduce either new strains of 'monster', or at least rare ones.
Not a criticism, as anything posted on the topic is both interesting and valid, I'm just throwing out ideas, as this thread still seems to be in the 'brainstorming' stage.
Good Work Nell,
However i am not a fan of the Drow and I like using grimlocks of sort of a living Ghoul. Grimlocks are motivated by food and anything which does not carry their particular scent. The jermaline are a good touch not used often. Skulk could work but should be the place no race will dwell.
Just think of the PC's racing to escape the Grimlock lands. All of a sudden they halt in their tracks as the PC's pass through a certain part of the UnderOerth. It is very quiet here and appears to be devoid of any sign of life. best thing is the Grimlocks don't follow them into this area but wait on the fringes. Imagine feeling someone pass by you that you do not see. hearing sudden movement only to spot nothing in sight. Perhaps these Skulks fear the light and the under Oerth doesn't present that problem often. Imagine the PC's gathering a fire onlt to see 10 to 20 outlining shapes through the haze of the fire. Yet just moving a few feet from the fire these images disappear almost as if they were never their.
Trust me your PC's will want for the days of fleeing Grimlocks.
Heck Jermaline could actually make money from surface dwellers exploring the caverns of the Underoerth. They know of paths even the denziens of the dark lands don't . However I think the primary above ground races would probably be some type of reptillian race or as previously stated the Suel Spawn.
Eh, I'm one of those that's had it up to here with the whole drow/Lolth thing.
I'm a bit tired of it myself, which is why I'm trying a few new twists. I could just rewrite or rework them entirely, but it's more fun (for me) to use the established building blocks to create something new. Gygax put dark-skinned elves in the Sulhauts, so that's what I'm running with.
Quote:
For this region, can't we extend the White Kingdom westward, or is it to be isolated from this Underdark area? Further, while skulks fill this void to an extent, I agree that if this area IS an isolated one, you'd do well to introduce either new strains of 'monster', or at least rare ones.
The White Kingdom is in the Helldark, beneath the Hellfurnaces. East-west connections between the Lostdark and the Helldark are thin at best; the best routes are under derro or drow control. I've got some thoughts on the Lostdark undead that I'll post later.
Fear not; new and different beasts will be introduced if necessary, but I'm also going through existing sources (MM2, MM3, FF) and noting appropriate monsters.
I love input and opinions; that's the whole point of doing this on the forums vs an article.
In bitter irony, one of my dogs got sprayed by a skunk, and my writing time tonight went bust. Sooooo...maybe tomorrow morning??
I for one, am not tired of the Drow. I love them, and my players loathe them. However, for us, they are not so overexposed. I have read some of the Drizzit books, and they were fun. But, I have never played much in the realms, or anywhere actually, except GH and homebrew.
So for me, they are still sparkling and new, just like when I was 15 and going through Against The Giants for the first time. I hate that such excellent villains have been so over done, and sometimes, so poorly done.
For me part of the fascination with the drow has always been the mysterious complexity and absolute competence involved with them. Grimlocks just dont have the same appeal as a villan, though i do not argue that they make excellent opponenets. Skulks are closer, but once you figure them out, they are a danger to be avoided; they just dont have the competence the Drow have. Drow come after you.
Thanks Nell for this new twist upon them. In many ways, other than the Vault, this is the only glimpse into Oerth Drow that I know of, and so far I like it!
You'll note that I didn't say I was tired of drow in general, just the "wherever there's a drow, there's a spider soon to follow" mentality. I revere Gygax's material, and he did Lolth first (I think) and best (I know) with Queen of Spiders.
As I've noted elsewhere, that's the one concession I'll make to Lolth - that Erelhei-Cinlu, after a bitter civil war, has remained under her rule. The rest of MY drow have found bigger, badder gods to worship, primarily Grazz't.
Admittedly, part of it is my players' background - they're all big Realms players/readers, and could probably navigate Menzoberranzen with their eyes closed.
I've had Lolth up to my eyeballs, and while I'll continue to allow my players to assume that she is synonymous w/ drow everywhere (a belief perpetuated by their previous explorations in the Vault), they're in for a big surprise the first time they go adventuring through a different Underdark realm.
For what it's worth, I agree that drow are WONDERFUL villains, and I appreciate the notion that Nell is giving them a tweaking. In fact, the genius of the drow is one of my biggest objections to the idea that they're synonymous everywhere with big, hairy spiders. If the surface races of Oerth can have umpteen different gods, why would a drow populace that's at least as sophisticated as humankind have only one god, that everyone worshipped in lockstep. Frankly, I think it's demeaning!
By the way, Lostdark and Helldark are REALLY cool names. More please.
You'll note that I didn't say I was tired of drow in general, just the "wherever there's a drow, there's a spider soon to follow" mentality.
My error. I read "drow/Lolth" as "drow AND Lolth", not "drow PLUS Lolth". I can't guarantee you'll like or dislike my interpretation. I think the elves as a whole worship a single pantheon, and the drow/Lolth connection is essentially a cult -- there just aren't alot of options for them to worship.
That doesn't mean they all have the same beliefs and same ways of worshipping Lolth, however. The popular drow seem to keep spiders as pets; the Sul-drow regard them as divine beings. The drow of the Sundark may be even more different.
Quote:
By the way, Lostdark and Helldark are REALLY cool names. More please.
Your wish is my command.
The underdark beneath Sunndi is either the Sundark or the Southdark, or probably both, depending on where you're from; the Deephalls are the northern underdark, and the Fuyondy underdark is the Neardark (or Nyrdark). I'm still working on a common name for the Lortmil underdark.
I'm fond of naming things. I'm also feeling literal today.
Nell.
Hey, you say tomato, I say Grazz't. That's a minor detail, certainly one I can amend on my own time. Are we (and when I say we, I mean YOU, Nell ) approaching a point where at least a rudimentary map of the various 'Darks' can be put together? I'm not talking detail, of course, just rough geography. I'm a visual kinda guy, and to see all these spaces laid out would be very helpful, and cool.
Good stuff. Now when I look at the map, instead of seeing a wasted space on the lower left hand corner, I see possibility.
Tired of the Drow? Yeah, me too.
Well.... OK, I'm tired of the traditional Drow. As bad guys they've become too predictable and "cute".
Mine tried to break away from Lolth after the events in A-G-D-Q weakened the Spider Queen. A demon-worshipping Noble House plunged E-C into a years-long civil war, ended by the Lolthians striking a bargain with some Illithids who sucked the brains out of Eclavdra & co. The remnants of the renegade House landed in the Hellfurnaces, where a cast-off daughter was experimenting with Drow-Goblinoid crossbreeds in order to build an army that can be raised faster and could fight in the surface world. (The things we do for our mother's approval, or maybe to destroy her and suck the marrow from her bones...)
Drow are the kind of evil that will leave a table of players looking at the DM in shock after he reads the room description. The kind of evil that makes the Chaotic Neutral rogue demand that all Drow be killed on principle. The kind of evil that... well, this is a PG-13 forum, I'll let you figure it out.
Good Drow like Drizz'l the B'urdn? Any Drow showing any signs of such weakness would... damn, there's that PG-13 rating again. Let's just say it would be very, very painful in so many ways for so very long.
Nellesir, great thread (had to say it). Sorry I can't add too much now, rather snowed under with work....... Still its rather more difficult to concentrate now with visions of deserted halls, lurking Suel-spawn et al.
I'm a visual kinda guy, and to see all these spaces laid out would be very helpful, and cool.
What you said, absolutely. Plus I'm collecting maps of Greyhawk lately.
Tonight, if all goes well. I finished up an outside job over the weekend and made strong headway on the Oerth Journal, and received the file I was waiting for from GLH and made rough sketches. Given an hour or two later, I should be able to put one or two VERY SIMPLE maps online somewhere, and link to them here.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
Not only do they want to enslave you but plump you up to eat. Like I said Nell that is some great work and I will definately be incorporating some this into my own campaign at some point.. Now go finish OJ 
