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    Canonfire :: View topic - The God Pact
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    The God Pact
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1843
    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:36 am  
    The God Pact

    I've been looking for this but can't find what the sources are on the pact between the gods not to act directly in the affairs of Oerth that has been discussed before. The closest thing I've found is in the chapter on the Powers on page 80 of From the Ashes' atlas, but it says the agreement is implicit, which would rule out a formal pact. Anyone have citations for a formal pact?
    As a matter of opinion, in your campaign, if there is a formal pact, what form does it take? Is it just an agreement between all the gods to pile on any other god who acts too directly, as FtA seems to indicate, or something more like a curse or magical effect that keeps any one god from doing so?
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2002
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    Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:06 am  

    Chapter 7 of the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (page 164 to be exact) states: "Finally, no god above demigod level may enter the Prime Material Plane of Oerth without the consensus of the majority of the gods of Oerth. A few exceptions to this are Ehlonna, Fharlanghn, Obad-Hai, and Olidammara [these powers have chosen the Prime as their home plane]...Beory (who may actually be the Oerth itself), and St Cuthbert (who was allowed to come to Oerth to fight Iuz on more than one occasion, though this last action might carry a price to be paid in the future).

    That suggests an unmentioned, but explicit pact between the Gods, at least to my mind.

    Page 6 of Iuz the Evil says "...it is almost a law of the Powers that they do not intervene directly in the Prime Material to strike at a deity which has its being there..."

    The section goes on to say that the Powers don't intervene as if the good deities did, the evil powers would consider it fair game to intervene themselves, with Oerth becoming a divine battleground, with all the consequences thereof. It notes that St Cuthbert could only have intervened if the evil powers consented, that Incabulos didn't care one way or another (so implicitly allowed the interventions), whereas Nerull explicitly gave permision.

    Finally, Iuz the Evil notes that if the Greater Powers permit an intervention (and it's the Greater Powers who really count in this), then there's reciprocity: An intervention by the Powers of Good may cause the Good Powers to have to sit back at a later date and allow an intervention by an Evil Power.

    All of this seems to definitely imply a firm compact between the Powers. They all agree not to intervene without the permission of the others and there's a quid pro quo between them.

    I think there's also something in the original WoG boxed set books, but I cant find them at the moment.


    Last edited by Kalindren on Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3206
    From: Michigan

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    Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:20 pm  

    The DM Guide to the Planes in the original Planescape boxed set (by David "Zeb" Cook), pages 45-46.

    Quote:
    The dark is that powers just donít go and parley with most normal folks, probably because they donít want to take such a direct hand in the multiverse, as it would inevitably lead to a like response from other powers. Good and evil, lawful and chaotic, the powers made the multiverse, and they know that direct confrontation is the quickest way to wreck the whole show. Maybe they went that route once, in time before their own measuring, and found that no one could win that game. Oh, they still meddle with each otherís followers, try to subvert realms, and generally work behind the scenes, but getting directly involved can bring down the combined wrath of a lot of fellow powers. All of them remember what happened to the last deity that tried itóYavass, Lord of Tyrants. His moldering body drifts in the Astral Plane as a mutual warning to all the powers.


    There's also the part of Vecna Lives! (also by David "Zeb" Cook) that indicated that only Iuz was free to intervene when Vecna attempted to become the sole god of Oerth. While there are other gods who count Oerth as their home plane (including such powerful deities as Beory and Fharlanghn) the Planescape rule that gods agreed not to become directly involved with mortals applies even when Oerth is their home. Fharlanghn may wander the Oerth, but that doesn't mean he's free to act as he pleases.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:35 am  

    The number of quasi- and hero-deities native and possibly still residing in the Flanaess seems to beg for some rationale for their restraint.

    Maybe the next question is "What are the events and circumstances when a deity has directly intervened on Oerth - and what was the cost to that deity?"

    In addition to the circumstances rasgon mentioned regarding Vecna Lives!, the original Temple of Elemental Evil also provided for conditions of Iuz's possible intervention. Iuz, again, personally intervened in the Five Shall Be One/Howl From the North adventures which kicked off the Greyhawk Wars.

    Was the appearance of Mayaheine in the Flanaess the price for Iuz's manipulation of the barbarians?

    What deific tit-for-tat exceptions to non-intervention can we recall? Do we throw in the demon lords/archdevils/celestial paragons/etc.?
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