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    Canonfire :: View topic - Up the Hool River, pre-war (long)
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    Up the Hool River, pre-war (long)
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:11 pm  
    Up the Hool River, pre-war (long)

    IMC, set pre-war in the 570s, the party will be traveling by river boat up the Hool River (west then south). I am interested in knowing what is to be seen on that journey between the Javan River and just north of Lake Spendlowe, where information is provided in UK2, the Sentinel. It is in this area where I do not have modules to showcase Greyhawk. Showcasing Greyhawk is my primary motivation.

    I plan on running a few encounters and presenting descriptions of what can be seen by boat, but not adventuring extensively in the area, but you never know. For encounters, for far, I am planning on using an idea from DwarffromNyrond, who DMed part of the same travel, and having the boat attacked by a young fog giant coming out of the Marsh. There will probably be at least one chases by slave powered river galleys. I would also like to work in an agent of the Scarlet Brotherhood. For that, I am thinking a mage of Wee Jas as her portfolios of Magic, Death, Vanity, and Law would be suitable for insinuation into the culture by appealing to an anti-Keoish sentiment, given their mistrust of magic, artistic self-indulgence of the nobility (I think there timing would be right for the Keoish embargo), as well as the fatalism that might appeal to the Olman slaves. Somehow I need to work in a short stop, probably at a court, town or plantation.

    If anyone has any information they could share about these or other things that would be seen on the way, such as towns, plantations, individuals, etc., or anything else, I would appreciate it.

    For those who are just interested in the subject, below I have complied clippings from almost everything I could find at CF and then some. I hope it is of use. My thanks, in no particular order, to DwarffromNyrond, PaulN6, Chatdemon, Cruelsummerlord, GVDammerung, Osmund-Davizid, Mortellan, Yabusama and Erik Mona. I am looking forward to giving a big thanks to Samwise after he posts “The Rhola and the Toli: The Battle for Jeklea Bay”.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:12 pm  

    http://www.dangermouse.net/gurps/demesnes/swamps.html : “Once the swift-flowing Hool River leaves the foothills of the Hellfurnaces it spreads into a broad, slow meander across the plains, giving rise to the waterlogged lands of the Hool Marshes.”

    http://members.aol.com/dmwog/swamps.html: “After the initial rush of the Hool River from the high lake and freshets in the Hellfurnaces, it begins to meander across the plains, and most of its length is surrounded by quaking mires and bottomless pools.”

    http://freespace.virgin.net/scott.rennie/timeline.htm: Sheldomar timeline: “419 Sea Princes settlers reach the source of the Hool River, Lake Spendlowe . The Hool River becomes the new western border of the Hold. “

    Chatdemon (Map of the Sheldomar Valley in 593 CY )and Yabusama (Southern Keoland Maps Part I of II ) located the towns of Darwog and Ceibatl as well as a juncture for the river Melkor.

    Cruelsummerlord provided in On the Kobolds of the Flanaess: History, Culture and Nation that there would be a Famous Kobold Tribes called The Cripplers that is “famous for rigging traps that break the joints of larger folk and for their long-running enmity with the gnolls of the wilderness, a conflict that often spills (or spilled, as the case may be) into the Sea Prince society. The Cripplers are ruled by Chief Koklec’tun, He Who Wields the Crippling Hammer.”

    Marck Polstar of GVD’s Literature in the Flanaess: The Travels of Marck Polstar, could have been in the area starting to compile information for Swamp of Death (1 Volume) 1st Edition - 588 CY, at that time.

    Osmund-Davizid in Keoish Intelligence Report from the Hold of the Sea Princes provided:

    “The City of Westkeep …has never been particularly healthy and vibrant. Being too close to the Hool Marshes, coupled with the high temperatures and muggy weather made the city a breeding ground for diseases. But the land was also valuable as croplands, and there are valuable resources to harvest from the Hools (mostly medicinal herbs from the swamps themselves and fish from the Javan) (FN 2). The … ruler of this territory, the Grandee of Westkeep, was a wealthy and powerful lord among the Sea Princes, owning huge plantations and many slaves. …The city walls were expanded a few decades ago in order to protect it from marauding creatures from the Hools …the old Grandee of Westkeep – Baron-Master Maag himself.

    “The Hool Marshes literally teem with dangerous creatures, both fantastic and mundane. Bottomless pools of quicksand, disease, and tribes of lizard men and bullywugs are common hazards.

    [It appears that Fort Bulwark is a recent addition but, I would think some form of outpost would be in its place to guard commerce.] “Just six miles north of the city, a fort has sprung up to resupply Westkeep and handle river traffic, as Westkeep itself is several miles from the banks of the Javan River. Long ago, a system of canals and aqueducts connected the Javan to Westkeep to allow small boats to pull right up to the city to unload cargo. … There is a small harbor with a garrison of troops that escort wagons of cargo up the winding six mile trail to the north part of the city.

    “The Lords of Purity and the Temple of the Gaping Maw: Monks in the service of Wastri … in the middle of the Hools … located deep in the northern part of the swamp…, by a large, unmapped lake that is connected to the Javan via some tributary rivers. The monks do a brisk trade in slaves … selling them back to the Hold … [There might be some trade pre-war].

    “H’Thiss Kaa: The most powerful force in the Hools may very well be this vile city of the yuan ti. … H’Thiss Kaa, a strange pyramid like structure in the deep marsh populated by the evil snake men. [Contact would probably be very rare].
    ...
    “The City of Industrious: There is a small township in the very western tip of the Hold called Industrious …. The town made its living from working a copper mine in the foothills of the Hellfurnaces. The slave overseers were exceptionally cruel (even by Sea Prince standards) … a high priestess of Bralm [the cult may be present pre-war] raises honey that is harvested over several acres of giant beehives and is a staple for the villagers’ diet. … the village has several smithies churning out strangely shaped bronze armor and weapons. The armor is shaped so as to give the impression the soldier is an insect-like creature. [There would likely be some commerce from this city].

    “The priestess is very powerful (about 14-15th level) and ruthless in her control. She answers to only “The Queen” and has designs on turning the whole western lands into a vast colony for her to breed her insects and toil for the greater glory of Bralm. …”
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:12 pm  

    CruelSummerLord’s Greyhawk Gazetteer Addendum: The Sheldomar Valley, Part 4 notes that the hold sent slave raiding parties into the Yeomanry.

    Chatdemon in Lore of the Amedio I provided: “The Olman are a collection of loosely affiliated tribes descended from the inhabitants of a once great empire that ruled most of the jungle. They tend to be slightly shorter than the rest of humanity, averaging around 5 feet in height, but with a heartier build and a much higher tolerance for the brutal climate of their homeland. Olman humans tend to have dark skin, ranging from light to dark brown hues, and dark brown or black hair. They are quite fond of body painting, tattoo arts, primitive jewelry and body 'enhancements' (piercings, stretchings, brandings and other more exotic procedures). The Olman are a basically friendly and outgoing people, but have some spiritual and religious traditions, such as sacrifice and ritual cannibalism, that are misunderstood and demonized by explorers from the north.”

    CruelSummerLord in Greyhawk Gazetteer Addendum: The Sheldomar Valley, Part 3 provided:

    “Bright and prosperous, this beautiful, tropical land was home to a decadently wealthy nation with seemingly bottomless pockets … a place of wealthy nobles living in large manors and plantations, grown fat and wealthy from their decadent slave trade.

    “Society and Culture: The old realm of the Sea Princes was quiet, calm and peaceful, its people smiling and laughing in the hot sun. Knowing considerable freedom, they did not grant it to their many slaves, who toiled endlessly on their rich plantations, yielding tremendous amounts of food to be consumed at home and traded abroad.

    “The social structure of the old Sea Princes was relatively loose; the thirty Sea Prince positions were hereditary, with each noble ruling over his dominion, the thirty coming together in common cause to govern, electing a single Prince to act as the general head of state. Below all this was the common people, who could trade slaves, conduct piracy, smuggle, or do whatever else they liked, so long as the Princes got their cut of the money. Unscrupulous scalawags came from as far away as the Sea Barons and the Wild Coast to make their fortunes here, with demihumans just as welcome as their human counterparts.

    … “The western and central areas of the realm [has a] volatile collection of ethnic groups …
    “Military Structure: The old Sea Princes had a small army of average training and morale, which was rarely called on except to suppress slave revolts. …

    “When King Kimbertos Skotti took the throne, he made trafficking with the Sea Princes illegal, earning him their enmity, though some of his nobles continued anyway. …”

    Osmund-Davizid in a post to the forum “The Hold of the Sea Princes” noted: “the interior was much more laxly governed by the collaberating nobility.”

    In his write up “SEA PRINCES, HOLD OF THE”, Erik Mona provided:

    “Demi-Humans: Very Few
    “Humanoids: Many
    “Resources: Foodstuffs, Slaves

    “…the Sea Princes expanded their nation to the borders of the Hellfurnace Mountains. Vast farms could be maintained by this almost limitless supply of unpaid workers. The clergy of the Hold, notably clerics and holy men of Xerbo, supported this action, seeing it as a method of converting thousands of new worshippers with relative ease.

    “Needless to say, the boom of the slavery business in the Hold of the Sea Princes drew the enmity of surrounding nations, specifically the Yeomanry, whose citizens favored personal independence above little else.

    “This practice continued until Prince Jeon II assumed rulership of the nation. Before a council of his peers in the summer of 577 CY, he demanded the dismantling of the institution and was shouted down by the nation's nobility. The Prince of Toli, the Plar of Hool, the Grandee of Westkeep and the Commodores of the Isles all voted the action down. Gaining support only from the largely ineffectual Governor of Isle Sybarate and Duke of Berghof, Jeon disgustedly withdrew the motion to abolish slavery in the Hold of the Sea Princes. …

    “Like too many nations, the hold had fallen victim to the machinations of the Scarlet Brotherhood. This insidious organization had infiltrated the courts of nearly all of the nobles in the land and, in 583 CY, the hold fell without a single battle. Of the 30 nobles that comprised the nation's government, 27 fell to assassins' blows in a single night. The remaining nobles signed a notice of surrender peacefully and without incident.

    “POLITICS: Before falling to the agents of evil, the Sea Princes were ruled by a Prince of noble blood. In the years following the Hold's establishment, the ruling families intermarried to a point at which all could claim a common ancestry. When the Island of Sybarate (located one mile south of Fairwind Isle) and the Duchy of Berghof (located in the valley of Lake Spendlowe, source of the Hool River) were incorporated into the Hold, they were not allowed to marry into a noble family and thus were informally barred from direct rulership of the nation.

    “The chosen ruler (elected by the other nobles) held council with the remaining nobility in a House of Peers. This ruler had the ability to propose and carry out proclamations, though to do so without the consent of the nobility was seen as a foolish invitation to expulsion or worse. This form of government succeeded for hundreds of years, allowing the Hold of the Sea Princes to become one of the most prosperous merchant states of the Flanaess.


    “CULTURE: … Before the invasion, the residents of the Hold were carefree. Theirs was a secluded and highly prosperous nation that felt not the political rumblings of the north. Largely because of their isolation, the Holders had been a highly artistic peoples, their work traveling often as far as the decadent collectors of Tenh.

    “Many of the Flanaess' greatest bards came from these lands, and, prior to the wars, Port Toli was an artistic pilgramage of sorts, as it's beauty was said to be inspiring indeed. The Hold very much catered to the wealthy in those prosperous days, and "sight-seeing" tours to the Amedio were quite common among the country's elite.

    “RELIGION: … Before 583 CY, most of the common gods and goddesses received attention within these lands. The Oeridian goddess Sotillion, stewardess of summer, ease and comfort, held great favor within the noble houses. The clergy of Xerbo controlled much of the seafaring trade of these peoples and Pelor was worshipped by many of the commoners. The slaves, despite the efforts of the above clergies, resisted most efforts of conversion.

    “Of particular note is a small but devoted following of Kelanen, the Lord of Swords. Jeon II and his family are said to have been devout followers of this individual and many natives of the Hold still revere him. “

    DwarffromNyrond provided in the forum “The Hold of the Sea Princes” that “I'm going to divide the Hold into the highlands and the lowlands.”

    Mortellan’s Map of the Great Oerik Flood shows sea intrusion slightly south of the present day Hool Marshes to about the level of Darwog, with marshes running south of that along the course of the Hool River to the point of the Kamph mountains.

    Chatdemon’s Gods of the Suel 10: Bralm Revisited: “legends like that of the doomed town of Lampstead, in the Hool marshlands near Westkeep, where a mayor who tired of the endless battles against the cockroaches of the swamp used large amounts of oil and torches to cleanse the town of the pests was beset by an army of Dire Monstrous Beetles whose immunity to flame led them to overrun and destroy the town, usually keep all but the most foolhardy villain from taking advantage of the Bralman faithful's aversion to flame.”

    According to PaulN6 by posts in the forum “Running the Sentinel”: “Berghof was never populous and is of limited strategic use to them except as a possible trade route to Melkot and the Yeomanry.” And “Berghof post 591 CY is actually more stable than the rest of the Hold. The villages are probably keeping a low profile and carrying out some trade with Melkot. Sea trade is probably non-existent. Peaceful Olman slaves have settled by the lake.”
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:12 pm  

    See also WG9 Gargoyle (no, really!) for details on the Hool Marsh settlement of Rockburg, and "By the Wayside" in Dungeon® #19 for details on the settlement of Bracken.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:07 pm  

    Thanks for the information, DMPrata, but from what little I know of them those modules they are not what I am looking for because they are in the wrong place. Of course, they might still have valuable information nonetheless.

    There were some discussions of "By the Wayside" in cwslyclgh’s forum, “News Flash! Javan river smaller then previously thought!” that would indicates that Bracken would not be on the Hool River as it straddles the Javan river. I do not think any of the suggest ways to remedy that impossibility were other than moving it to just off the Javan to an out of the way tributary. Also, it seems to be hard to come by. I tried to get ahold of it before for inclusion IMC, but couldn’t find a copy.

    Greyhawk Modules Locations Index provides “Rockburgh on the Hool - Tors border, Keoland”, so it looks like that too is not on the Hool River. Also your “(no, really!)” and Osmund-Davizid’s (and perhaps others) describing it as belonging to The Greyhawk Hall of Shame suggest that it might not be worth buying even if it has some relevant information. I might want to buy it anyway if the problem is just that it is a comedy and it has enough information on the Hool River. Osmund-Davizid’s discussions of Industrious and Westkeep, neither of which are directly on the river are very interesting and relevant. By comparison, I do not plan on doing much with the commerce from Melkot other than to mention it. That city is too far away when compared to Westkeep and not alien enough which compared with Industrious.

    Here is what I was able to find out about WG9, likely a description on the jacket: “Gargoyle is an adventure set in the world of GREYHAWK, the longest-running of TSR's game worlds for the ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game. A pair of gargoyles wake up one morning to find their wings missing, and contact the players to help them recover them. A great many AD&D players have been asking for low-level adventures suitable for beginners, and Gargoyle is the first of several planned for this year. Designed for levels 1 to 4, this adventure can be enjoyed by novices and experienced players alike.”

    Do you know if WG9 has any information about the Hool River or the interior of the Hold, or a recommendation as to the modules quality that it would be worth relocating Rockburgh to say, somewhere near the Kamph Mts?

    Even without those, thanks again as that information will be valuable to anyone interested in the Hool or the Hold generally.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:30 pm  

    OK DMPrata, you are holding back on me … OK more accurately, I was not paying close enough attention to your work, discovered it and am hoping for a little more detailed information. Embarassed

    In your World of Greyhawk® Character Birthplace Table you provided for 576 that in the Hold of the Sea Princes the human languages spoken are “Common 82%, Oeridian 16%, Flan 1% and Suloise 1%” and the common alignments are “N, CN, CE” while the regime alignment is N(g).

    I assume that information is for the Hold generally, which is dominated by the coastal regions. How does it compare for the interior along the Hool River and what are the implication of N(g). Is that just the alignment of Jeon II or do you take that further? For example, would you apply it to the Grandee of Westkeep, the Plar of Hool or their vassals or administrators?
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:00 pm  

    Wolfsire wrote:
    OK DMPrata, you are holding back on me … OK more accurately, I was not paying close enough attention to your work, discovered it and am hoping for a little more detailed information. Embarassed

    In your World of Greyhawk® Character Birthplace Table you provided for 576 that in the Hold of the Sea Princes the human languages spoken are “Common 82%, Oeridian 16%, Flan 1% and Suloise 1%” and the common alignments are “N, CN, CE” while the regime alignment is N(g).

    I assume that information is for the Hold generally, which is dominated by the coastal regions. How does it compare for the interior along the Hool River and what are the implication of N(g). Is that just the alignment of Jeon II or do you take that further? For example, would you apply it to the Grandee of Westkeep, the Plar of Hool or their vassals or administrators?


    Hey, Wolf. First, I am in no way endorsing the quality of Gargoyle. Wink I ran it for my group, and it was certainly an amusing jaunt, but it's hardly Temple of Elemental Evil. In the interest of inclusiveness, though, it does provide a fairly well-detailed settlement (Rockburgh-on-the-Marsh) which is apparently situated on a small tributary of the Hool.

    As to "By the Wayside", I don't see the big problem. Yes, the hex location may be off a little (based on the north-south course of the Javan), but, otherwise, it works for me. Even if you aren't interested in the adventure itself, there is some colorful background material about the region.

    The info about the languages in the Hold came straight from "Leomund's Tiny Hut" in DRAGON® #52. The common alignments came from that article, and from the alignment map in the Guide. My choice of N(g) for the regime alignment reflects what I know about Jeon II; that is, the "regime" is basically Neutral (perhaps with more Chaotic tendencies along the southeast coast and islands), but Jeon tries to influence his fellow nobles towards Good to some small degree (largely without success). Given the background material in The Sentinel, I believe that N(g) would also be an appropriate regional alignment for the Berghof area as well.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:36 am  

    DMPrata, thanks again for the information. I think “a fairly well-detailed settlement (Rockburgh-on-the-Marsh)” may have sold me on it. I’m already sold on “By the Wayside” for when the adventure goes into the I2 and I7 stage, if I can only get my hands on it. Mad
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:01 am  

    Wolfsire wrote:
    DMPrata, thanks again for the information. I think “a fairly well-detailed settlement (Rockburgh-on-the-Marsh)” may have sold me on it. I’m already sold on “By the Wayside” for when the adventure goes into the I2 and I7 stage, if I can only get my hands on it. Mad


    Noble Knight has a couple of copies of Dungeon® #19.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:10 am  

    The only city between the Hool River and the Yeomanry found in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (and map), the D&D Gazetteer (and map), and the wonderful Greyhawk maps published by Erik in Dungeon Magazine recently is the City of Melkot. The only place you'll find extensive information (with more coming) on Melkot is on my website (URL below). Use the site map page to see (and jump directly to) all the pertinent pages (there are currently 6 pages, not including several pertinent links to other more general pages).

    Although, as you say, it is a bit far away from the Hool itself, there is a small tributary heading up in that direction. If you do use Rockburgh, its really not that much closer, I don't think, and certainly much much smaller. You're more likely to run into someone from Melkot then Rockburgh if anybody at all is mucking about the Hool down there. There certainly is alot of politics in Melkot, but if you're looking for alien (and deadly) let them into Melkotia Castle. ;-)

    If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.

    Denis, aka "Maldin"
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    Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
    Check out the ton of cool Edition-independent stuff on my website, New Spells, Magic Items, Notoriety, Artifacts, Kyuss, secrets of the Twin Cataclysms, the Codex of the Infinite Planes, the Dreadwood, the cities of Melkot, Greyhawk and Irongate, a Grand Unified Theory for all of D&D, magic and the Multiverse, and much, much more!!
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:05 am  

    Thanks DMPrata, Noble Knight is where I get my stuff, but every time I went there they did not have Dungeon 19. Well, I just bought it and Gargoyle, and darned it I did not have to get another Dungeon just to meet there minimum order.

    Maldin, thank you for chiming in. I have been to your fantastic site several times, and I did so again before opening the forum specifically looking for information on the Hool River. Unfortunately, I did not find any. Do you have any idea to share regarding the impact of Melkot up and down the Hool river? Your statement “if anybody at all is mucking about the Hool down there” indicates that there would not be much of an impact. PaulN6 suggested trade between Berghof and Melkot. I would suspect that such trade would go around the Marsh, but would end up on the river and there by create a need for a town in the location where Chatdemon put Darwog. Such would also serve the town of Industrious.

    I am not particularly looking for alien. It is just that a merchant on the river from Industrious guarded by dulled eyed men in bug like armor would stand out and be worthy of comment.
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    Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:25 am  

    DMPrata wrote:
    Wolfsire wrote:
    In your World of Greyhawk® Character Birthplace Table you provided for 576 that in the Hold of the Sea Princes the human languages spoken are “Common 82%, Oeridian 16%, Flan 1% and Suloise 1%” and the common alignments are “N, CN, CE” while the regime alignment is N(g).

    I assume that information is for the Hold generally, which is dominated by the coastal regions. How does it compare for the interior along the Hool River and what are the implication of N(g). Is that just the alignment of Jeon II or do you take that further? For example, would you apply it to the Grandee of Westkeep, the Plar of Hool or their vassals or administrators?


    . . .

    The info about the languages in the Hold came straight from "Leomund's Tiny Hut" in DRAGON® #52. The common alignments came from that article, and from the alignment map in the Guide. My choice of N(g) for the regime alignment reflects what I know about Jeon II; that is, the "regime" is basically Neutral (perhaps with more Chaotic tendencies along the southeast coast and islands), but Jeon tries to influence his fellow nobles towards Good to some small degree (largely without success). Given the background material in The Sentinel, I believe that N(g) would also be an appropriate regional alignment for the Berghof area as well.

    Friends, especially DMPrata and Wolfsire, I'm interested in your suggestions for Earthly languages to derive names for Seolders (Jason Farina's old term for inhabitants of the Hold of the Sea Princes).

    I plan to post related questions and comments to several old threads but am starting with this one because of the information attributed to Lakofka in the above-quotation.

    So far the few canon names I have found for Seolders include Jeon (whose only Earthly analogue is Korean), David Arun Del, the bishop of Sybarate Island (whose names resonate with Hebrew, Sanskrit, and Italian or Spanish), the wizard of Sybar, Pareesh Riest (whose names resonate with Sanskrit and possibly Dutch), the star-crossed lovers, Juliana (Latin) and Orlando (Italian or Spanish; and, based on Samwise's histories of Keoland and article on the Rhola, Toli, and battle over Jeklea Bay, Luschan (Austrian).

    I plan to mine The Sentinel and The Gauntlet for names, but since the "Grand" Duchy of Berghof has a distinctive history and ethno-racial mix (per past discussions here at Canonfire!, see Sheldomar Timeline), I think it's naming conventions aren't typical for the Seolders.

    (I think not to include "the beautiful half-elven princess, Caerwyn" and her human lover, "the magic user Porpherio Profoundeus," because they might predate the Twin Cataclysms and invasion of the Toli (or Tollax) Suel.)
    GreySage

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    Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:38 pm  

    mtg wrote:
    David Arun Del, the bishop of Sybarate Island (whose names resonate with Hebrew, Sanskrit, and Italian or Spanish), the wizard of Sybar, Pareesh Riest (whose names resonate with Sanskrit and possibly Dutch), the star-crossed lovers, Juliana (Latin) and Orlando (Italian or Spanish; and, based on Samwise's histories of Keoland and article on the Rhola, Toli, and battle over Jeklea Bay, Luschan (Austrian).


    I love the idea that there's enough trade between the Hold of the Sea Princes and "Zindia" to the south to have a sizable minority with Sanskrit-inspired names dwelling in the Hold.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:26 am  

    mtg wrote:
    Friends, especially DMPrata and Wolfsire, I'm interested in your suggestions for Earthly languages to derive names for Seolders (Jason Farina's old term for inhabitants of the Hold of the Sea Princes).

    I plan to post related questions and comments to several old threads but am starting with this one because of the information attributed to Lakofka in the above-quotation.

    So far the few canon names I have found for Seolders include Jeon (whose only Earthly analogue is Korean), David Arun Del, the bishop of Sybarate Island (whose names resonate with Hebrew, Sanskrit, and Italian or Spanish), the wizard of Sybar, Pareesh Riest (whose names resonate with Sanskrit and possibly Dutch), the star-crossed lovers, Juliana (Latin) and Orlando (Italian or Spanish; and, based on Samwise's histories of Keoland and article on the Rhola, Toli, and battle over Jeklea Bay, Luschan (Austrian).

    I plan to mine The Sentinel and The Gauntlet for names, but since the "Grand" Duchy of Berghof has a distinctive history and ethno-racial mix (per past discussions here at Canonfire!, see Sheldomar Timeline), I think it's naming conventions aren't typical for the Seolders.

    (I think not to include "the beautiful half-elven princess, Caerwyn" and her human lover, "the magic user Porpherio Profoundeus," because they might predate the Twin Cataclysms and invasion of the Toli (or Tollax) Suel.)

    I use EBoN for all my names.
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    Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:30 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    I love the idea that there's enough trade between the Hold of the Sea Princes and "Zindia" to the south to have a sizable minority with Sanskrit-inspired names dwelling in the Hold.

    That would be fascinating. For Samwise, the nation of Toli began colonizing the Hook of the Amedio Jungle before -300 CY. By the -150s CY, Keoland, under Sanduchar I (The Navigator), had begun exploring south of the Javan River and across Jeklea Bay into the Hook, and in -147 CY, his exploration fleet passed the Olman Islands and went into the Densac Gulf.

    So in that timeline, first contact might have been made with the Olman of Xamaclan and in turn the peoples of Changol and/or Jahind (per Anna's map). Of if that feels too early, then maybe it occurred during the reign of Malv III (The Navigator) (CY 7 to 49). Either way, it provides centuries for small enclaves to develop in Port Toli, Port Remdi / Monmurg, and/or the Islands and for those groups to then intermingle with the merchants, pirates, and princes of the Hold.

    (Also, this news seems relevant: "Today, people on Rapa Nui, also known as Easter Island, and four other Polynesian islands carry small amounts of DNA inherited from people who lived in Colombia about 800 years ago. One explanation: Polynesians came to South America, and then took South Americans onto their boats to voyage back out to sea." Some Polynesians Carry DNA of Ancient Native Americans, New Study Finds.)

    On a different subject (but related to this thread), what module introduced H’Thiss Kaa?
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3110
    From: Michigan

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    Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:19 am  

    mtg wrote:
    On a different subject (but related to this thread), what module introduced H’Thiss Kaa?


    I think the source is Keoish Intelligence Reports from the Hold of the Sea Princes by Osmund-Davizid, published on Canonfire! in 2004.

    I don't think it's from a module or official reference book.
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