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    Canonfire :: View topic - Help! I need Castle Hart info!!!
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    Help! I need Castle Hart info!!!
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:27 am  
    Help! I need Castle Hart info!!!

    In the Canonfire FAQ I have found that, in Iuz the Evil, Sargent either did not know about or ignored any reference to Castle Hart in the 2e Castles boxed set, so no reference is made to it. I also found that Erik L. Boyd wrote a treatise on what happened to the castle during and after the Greyhawk Wars.

    I have found a link to Erik's treatise, but the file is FUBAR. Does anybody have a copy of this? As this is unrestricted information, it could even be posted in full here. Thanks for any help.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:16 pm  

    I found a copy of it on this page. I think your problem may have been spelling Eric L. Boyd's name wrong.

    Subject: Castle Hart & the Wars

    Hail, and may the Axe grow great!

    Below you will find an piece by Eric Boyd regarding Castle Hart. Given the fact that the Veng frontier held so well and that Castle Hart was recognized as the linchpin of its defencse, I personally lean toward treating the earlier information from the "Castles" set as definitive and "Border Watch" as a screw-up in many respects (this wasn't the only problem with it, not by a long shot). Nevertheless, this is a very inventive piece with interesting potential.

    I'm trying to get clarification on this matter from Carl Sargent himself, and until then would recommend treating this piece as "variant history" that you can choose whether or not to include in your campaign. Even so, it is a very imaginative and solid variant. I certainly plan to place a castle like this somewhere on the continent, even though it won't be replacing Castle Hart in my campaign.

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    Castle Hart - After the War <Eric L. Boyd,boyd@eecs.umich.edu>
    =============================================================

    TSR released the Castles boxed set as a supplement to their 2nd Edition Battlesystem rules. The boxed set included three sample castles - Darkhold on Toril (Forgotten Realms - Faerun), Drungar on Krynn Dragonlance - Taladas), and Hart on Oerth (World of Greyhawk - Flanaess).

    Unfortunately Carl Sargent and the other TSR designers associated with the "From the Ashes" revival of the World of Greyhawk seemed to have completely overlooked the existence of this product. The location and description of Castle Hart does not fit well with the published information on Furyondy in "WGR4, The Marklands" supplement or, in particular, with the module "WGM1, Border Watch".

    This brief writeup of Castle Hart's recent history and current status is an attempt to reconcile the "Hart" supplement with the newer post-Ashes material. Some changes in the published information are necessary to integrate this product, as discussed in the text in bracketed regions (i.e. [...]).


    HISTORY:

    Castle Hart was built on the eastern border of Furyondy in the south-eastern corner of the County of Crystralreach, at the juncture of the Veng River and its tributary, the Crystal river, by the Knights of Furyondy, one of three branches of the Order of the Hart. Construction began in 358 CY and it underwent major expansions in 407 CY, 412 CY, and 522 CY. Castle Hart served for many decades on the front line of defense against the Horned Society and as a central meeting place for the Order of the Hart and the Knights of Furyondy. A partial history of Castle Hart, focusing on its construction, may be found in the "Hart" supplement of the "Castles" boxed set, current through the year 579 CY.

    During the construction of Castle Hart, the selected site was found to be too muddy to support the castle's weight. A wizard was hired to cast numerous 'transmute mud to rock' spells, but nonetheless the castle sank so that the Veng and Crystal rivers lapped against the walls. The wizard was employed again to cast additional spells, and the castle stopped sinking.

    Although the castle was secure, the rock beneath did not extend deep into the earth, a fact that was later to prove the castle's undoing.

    In 579 CY, Castle Hart was governed by Count Gladwell Solan, High Commander of the Knights of Furyondy (LG hm Pa11). Garrison strength stood at 800 cavalrymen (hm F2), 180 squires (hm F5), and 20 Knights of Furyondy (hm F5+). This force was supplemented by over 40 priests, predominantly those serving St. Cuthbert. Over 1000 servants, family members, and other non-combatants also resided within the tower walls. An additional 2000 citizens of Furyondy resided in the small town of Port Valour located immediately across the Crystal River from Castle Hart.

    [According to "Hart", Castle Hart was garrisoned by more than 1,000 cavalrymen of which two hundred were elite Knights of Furyondy. Given that the original "World of Greyhawk" boxed set lists the total strength of this branch at 200 Knights, this figure is too high. A more realistic revision is that 20 of the cavalrymen were members of the elite Knights. Another 180 served as squires and personal retainers to the elite Knights.]

    [According to "The Marklands," most Knights of Furyondy are powerful as landowners whose holdings are scattered throughout the Kingdom, maintainers of armies, and defenders of the land. It would seem reasonable that few chose to serve directly as a company under the Order's High Commander.]

    Although the High Commander is the titular leader of the Knights of Furyondy, in practice he has little authority outside of running Castle Hart, presiding over gatherings of the Knights, and providing well-respected counsel as a senior Knight.

    [According to "The Marklands," the Order of the Hart has no formal leaders, calling into question the existence of a 'High Commander.']

    Before the war, Castle Hart served as one of Furyondy's major defensive strongholds against the Horned Society. All attempts by the Hierarchs and their hordes to overrun eastern Furyondy were turned back by the forces of Castle Hart.


    THE GREYHAWK WARS:

    In 578 CY, one of the Dreaded Hierarchs hit upon a plan to eliminate Castle Hart as factor in Furyondy's fortifications. Some now claim that the Hierarch was an agent of Iuz who was already preparing for war, but this has never been proven.

    In 579 CY a team of duergar horgarin was hired to drive a horgar, a fabled beast of the Underdark, towards the surface to tunnel immediately below Castle Hart. (The horgar are monstrous beasts ranging from 30' to 100' in length that have created most of the Underdark tunnel network over countless eons as they burrow through earth and rock consuming minerals.) The project was estimated to take five years after which an elite army could be destroyed in a single blow and eastern Furyondy would be gravely weakened.

    When the great war broke out in 582 CY, the Hierarchs were quickly eliminated by agents of Iuz in a great slaughter during the Blood-Moon Festival. The forces of Iuz ran through the Bandit Kingdoms and flanked the Shield Lands which then fell to the Lord of Evil's overwhelming forces. As Iuz prepared to invade Furyondy, he put into action the Hierarch's plan to eliminate Castle Hart even though the horgar's work was not complete.

    The duergar horgarin had forced the horgar to create a vast cavern immediately below Castle Hart supported by a single vast central pillar. The hierarch's original plan envisioned progressively narrowing the pillar until a single well-placed 'disintegrate' spell would cause the cavern to collapse in a matter of seconds. When Iuz ordered the castle's destruction, the pillar was still fairly wide. The wizard Vayne of the Greater Boneheart had to cast a series of 'disintegrate' spells through a specially crafted crystal ball. As a result, instead of a single catastrophic collapse, the cavern took several minutes to collapse.

    On the surface the once formidable Castle Hart began to break apart and sink into the rivers' depths. Many inhabitants of the castle were crushed, trapped, and drowned as the castle disintegrated, but many more managed to escape. Across the river the inhabitants of Port Valour had plenty of time to flee, although with no more than they could carry in their hands, as their homes slowly slid into the river in a widening circle of destruction.

    When destruction was completely, the ruins of Castle Hart sat in a vast sinkhole buried under tons of mud. The Veng river had been shifted about one hundred yards to the west and the Crystal river had been shifted about fifty yards to the north. Port Valour was washed away, and a large section of both the southern riverbank of the Crystal river and the western riverbank of the Veng river were now partially submerged in a few inches of muddy water.

    Three quarters of Castle Hart's garrison and other inhabitants had managed to escape with their lives, armor, weapons, and horses, but little else. A grimfaced Count Solan refused to grieve and immediately began organizing the procurement of food, clean water, and temporary defenses. Without his exceptional leadership, many more people would have died and this crucial military force would have dissolved into confusion.

    Pleased by the destruction of the castle, but unwilling to challenge the castle's surviving garrison, Iuz canceled tentative plans for a strike across the Veng from the former Horned Society lands. This was probably a tactical error on his part, for Count Solan's surviving forces proved crucial to Furyondy's victory at the Battle of Critwall Bridge in 583 CY.


    CURRENT STATUS:

    Today the lands which surrounded Castle Hart are sparsely settled and largely overgrown. Although the site is still strategic, the marshy riverbanks and scattered sinkholes which continue to appear preclude the building of any new stone fortifications. Most of the former inhabitants of Port Valour have drifted away, some to the nearby village of Barduk.

    [Barduk is detailed in the module "WGM1, Border Watch". It is located south of the Crystal river on the western banks of the the Veng river several miles south of where Port Valour stood. Barduk is guarded by Border Post Number Four, nicknamed "Fort Critwall," garrisoned by a skeleton troop of former Shield Landers. Barduk's population swelled during the war, but has since collapsed due to economic misery, disease, and the death of many of its inhabitants who served in the armed forces during the war.]

    The castle's former role in the defense of the kingdom is being taken up by the recently constructed Eyeberen located to the south and east in the Viscounty of the March. Count Solan died a hero's death during the war from wounds suffered defeating a fiend summoned by Iuz's priests at the Battle of Critwall Bridge. The other surviving Knights and cavalrymen have all been reassigned throughout eastern Furyondy. The position of High Commander sits empty as the Knights of Furyondy debate proposals for reorganizing the Order.

    Several expeditions have been mounted by the agents of the King as well as Iuz's minions to plunder the ruined castle, but none have returned. Unbeknownst to either adversary, Castle Hart's defenders have continued their duties into undeath. Over three hundred haunts stalk the ruins of the sunken castle. None can rest or leave the castle's walls until they die in honorable combat while defending Furyondy from invasion. This has meant any interlopers from the surface have drowned as their magical means of water breathing expired or were discarded by the restless spirits who possessed their bodies.

    Of late the haunts have begun to possess scrags, koalinths, and merrow patrolling the depths of the Veng river in the employ of Iuz who stumbled into their domain, without immediately killing them as is typical for creatures of diametrically opposed alignments. To the haunts' twisted intellects, this further aids in their 'defense' of the castle. A haunt could be laid to rest by killing its possessed host in melee combat, but the host must truly die. Hence those haunts possessing regenerating scrags are unlikely to ever be truly laid to rest as they can not leave the underwater confines of the castle.

    In a sense, Castle Hart and its undead garrison still serves its former role defending eastern Furyondy from the hordes of humanoids across the Veng, However, the castle's role as a symbol of Furyondy's might and its subsequent destruction has badly sapped the morale of the kingdom's citizens in the region.


    ADVENTURE IDEAS:

    Wandering haunts and possessed aquatic humanoids now guard the treasures of Castle Hart which could not be saved before the castle sank beneath the surface. Recovering the large store of coins and magic stored in the Manor House Treasury (#U11) and the Temple Treasury (#U23) for the crown would allow defenses in the region to be strengthened ignificantly. In particular, it is rumored that Count Solan's magical footman's mace Evangel, stored in the Count's personal apartments and possessing many of the powers of a paladin's holy sword, was lost during the destruction of Castle Hart, as he was not known to use the weapon later during the war. Count Jakartai or King Belvor IV might sponsor a trusted, powerful adventuring band to salvage what remains of Castle Hart's wealth and recover Evangel, a powerful weapon dedicated to St. Cuthbert, if it can be found.

    [Evangel is detailed in "Hart", p. 40. It is holy mace +5 which acts like a holy sword in all respects. It is aligned LG, has a 14 intelligence, and speaks common. It has an ego of 14 and personality score of 28. Evangel is driven to defeat or slay all chaotic evil creatures. When used specifically for this purpose it can cast 'fear' (as the spell) for 1d4 rounds in chaotic evil creatures it hits which fail their save. It can can detect invisible objects in a 10' radius and cast a 'strength' spell on its wielder once per day.]

    There are rumors that underwater tunnels connect Castle Hart to a vast partially submerged cavern network located deep beneath the former lands of the Horned Society, although what creatures inhabit such a cavern network are unknown. If rumors of the existence of such tunnels come to the attention of Furyondy's rulers, they might sponsor an investigation by and adventuring band to determine if Furyondy's defenses are vulnerable, or if a possible secret invasion route into the heart of Iuz's territory exists for use during some future resumption of the war.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:55 pm  

    Thanks Rasgon. That is the same page and link I found, but for some reason I cannot view the file as it shows up as an undefined file type(for me at least). The WoG FAQ on CF has Eric's name mispelled as "Erik". Dang typos!!! Wink

    I think you also mentioned something to the effect that in the Castles entry on Castle Hart that the nobles who would form the Shield Lands used to meet occasionally at Castle Hart. The Shield Lands were formed by the early 300s CY in response to the formation of the Bandit Kingdoms, and Castle Hart was only begun to be built in 358 CY so there appears to be some conflict in dates as to who did what where. Can you clarify this?
    GreySage

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    Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:15 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:
    That is the same page and link I found, but for some reason I cannot view the file as it shows up as an undefined file type(for me at least).


    For me, too. I opened it with a program called 7-Zip.

    Quote:
    I think you also mentioned something to the effect that in the Castles entry on Castle Hart that the nobles who would form the Shield Lands used to meet occasionally at Castle Hart. The Shield Lands were formed by the early 300s CY in response to the formation of the Bandit Kingdoms, and Castle Hart was only begun to be built in 358 CY so there appears to be some conflict in dates as to who did what where. Can you clarify this?


    Well, keep in mind what canon was at the time:

    "The Bandit Kingdoms are a collection of petty holdings which were founded sometime around 300-350 CY." - A Guide to the World of Greyhawk Fantasy Setting, page 19.

    "When the Bandit Kingdoms began to grow powerful, the petty nobles of the north shores of the Nyr Dyv banded together to in a mutual protection socity." - ibid., page 34.

    With those dates, 358 CY doesn't sound unreasonable. The time of the foundation of the Bandit Kingdoms is vague, but I can see where they might not have grown powerful until later.

    While the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer did place the Shield Lands' founding in the early 300s, I think the 1983 WoG boxed set actually pointed toward a somewhat later date.

    What the Castle Hart booklet says is:

    "In the decades that followed [Castle Hart's construction], the castle served as a central gathering point for the Knights of Furyondy and the combined Order of the Hart. In addition, many diplomatic meetings were held here, most notably between the petty nobles of what would become the Shield Lands. In 407 CY, the knights built the castle's guesting house to accomodate the signing of a large treaty between Furyondy and those nobles."

    I think it was was reasonable at the time to assume that the Bandit Kingdoms weren't a substantial threat until 407 (assuming the treaty in question ratified the founding of the Shield Lands) or after 358 (at minimum). If the authors of the LGG had read Castle Hart, they might have pushed the founding of the Shield Lands until later. Not that it matters that much - just strike out the "what would become" part and read it as "the nobles of the Shield Lands."

    Castle Hart did place the founding of the Horned Society too early. The Guide said the nation was founded "some decades ago," but Castle Hart said they bordered the Crystal River as early as 358.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:03 pm  

    Thanks for the reference. Things look a bit to tight for me with regard to the dates, though I could see the nobles of a newly formed Shield Lands wanting to cement a treaty with the nobles of Furyondy to officially cement their independent status by being formally recognized by Furyondy, and also as a mutual protection pact against the growing threat of the Bandit lords.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:08 pm  

    some refs I pulled from my History of the Knights of the Hart
    articles on CF...

    (10) Canon is ambiguous about the existence of rank and internal divisions among the Knights of the Hart. A Guide to the World of Greyhawk and From the Ashes do not specifically mention whether the Knights have leaders or not. The Marklands (p.11) says specifically The Knights of the Heart have no formal leaders, and each knight is free to act alone or with other knights as their conscience and honor direct. However, Greyhawk Wars speaks of a Lord Throstin as the leader of the Furyondy Knights, and Castle Hart gives detail of another leader.

    (9) Castle Hart says that a formal treaty was signed in CY 407 establishing the Shield Lands as independent of Furyondy. However, this date seems too late to be consistent with the Guide to the World of Greyhawks proclamation that The adjunctive states [of Furyondy] were soon lost, (p. 22). Given that there are several other problems of consistency between Castle Hart and the rest of canon, I recommend that this reference be ignored.

    (10) Castle Hart does not give an exact date for the founding of the Order of the Hart, but it does say that the Branches were formed in CY 349 long after the Order itself. It also says that the Branches were formed as the result of political squabbling over the funds for construction of the Castle. Like other parts of Castle Hart, this is probably best left ignored.


    I had a much longer list of comments on Castle Hart but it has been at least 10 years since I wrote it and I'm not sure where it is. IIRC two were the founding date of the Horned Society was wrong, and that the garrison given in Castle Hart could only fit inside the buildings if they slept stacked like cordwood. All in all, Castle Hart is interesting, but does not mesh well with any other canon source that covers the same topics.
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:52 am  

    Thanks for the info.

    I'll choose to ignore that really bad quote from page 11 of The Marklands, as the Knights of the Hart aren't a group of 16 guys sitting about a round table.Wink The Knights of the Hart are a fighting formation numbering a few hundred knights. Add in squires and other necessary staff and that jumps into the thousands. "I do what I want to!"(said in the Cartman voice Wink ) is not a solid basis for a fighting formation of any kind, offensive or defensive. The Knights of the Hart not having even a basic command structure is quite literally ludicrous.

    As to the treaty date, I think it is best to think of that treaty as being when Furyondy formally recognized, through treaty, the independent status of the Shield Lands, not that 407 CY is when the Shield Lands was formed. It just took the rulers of Furyondy a while to finally let go of the possibility of annexing the Shield Lands. Plus, the treaty makes business flow better between the nations through formalizing relations (its always about the money! Happy ).

    I agree about the founding of the orders. It sounds like the writer was trying to impart WAY too much importance to Castle Hart. For instance, why the heck would the elves of Highfolk give a flying fig about something being built so far outside their lands in the first place? Ill stick with my version as to why the orders were formed.

    The formation of the Knights of the Hart also predates the formation of the Knights of Holy Shielding, who were founded in the mid-300's CY when the Shield Lands as a nation was formed under the leadership of the Walworths. Seeing as the the lands of Old Ferrond broke from the Great Kingdom in 254 CY, this gives them a full century to form the Knights of the Hart in response to not only the increasing power of the northenr border lords but also for the reason of fending off attempts by the Great Kingdom to put down the rebellion of the western border states.
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    Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:46 am  

    Wow... I'm only 13 years late to this discussion.

    I played some D&D in the early 1980s and decided to get back in the game recently. Started reading about Greyhawk, found Border Watch, and decided it was a great setting with a bad plot. So I'm writing my own version. That's what the Old School preached.

    The oversite of Castle Hart's location on the bank of the junction of the Crystal and Veng Rivers is stunning, but I always figured TSR and the world of game design & publishing was like that.

    I really appreciate the work that went into writing this untidy Castle Hart history.
    Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac

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    Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:40 am  

    James_Knell wrote:
    Wow... I'm only 13 years late to this discussion.

    I played some D&D in the early 1980s and decided to get back in the game recently. Started reading about Greyhawk, found Border Watch, and decided it was a great setting with a bad plot. So I'm writing my own version. That's what the Old School preached.

    The oversite of Castle Hart's location on the bank of the junction of the Crystal and Veng Rivers is stunning, but I always figured TSR and the world of game design & publishing was like that.

    I really appreciate the work that went into writing this untidy Castle Hart history.


    Welcome aboard. There is an immense amount of information and material here on Canonfire.
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    Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:26 am  

    I launched a many year campaign in Furyondy that all started from the Border Watch module -- albeit modified like you are about to do. Furyondy is a great country to set a campaign in.
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    Richard Di Ioia (aka Longetalos)
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    Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:07 pm  
    Thank you, Jason

    Thanks Jason. I am planning a log float down the Veng River off a newly repaired flume in a lumber camp north of "Fort Disaster". The logs will be used to repair and upgrade the fort's damaged stockade wall. I've enlarged the caravan x4 and added dwarven artillerists with ballista, hobbit carpenters, and gnome engineers to the caravan. Imagine mid-range ballista mounted on battle rafts knocking out Hobgoblin galleys clearing the way for a log drive.

    I've beefed up the Veng River to be a more formidable border. The orc convoy on the Chrystal River is still intact, but they are crossing on large barge-rafts, not fording. Adding caravan NPCs. Non-combat encounters. Installing Greyhawk lore & "easter eggs" from Jethro, Malin, and Emerald every campfire.

    Still trying to think of how to make the showdown at Cragson Mines make sense and be less of an after thought to delivering the caravan to Willip.

    JasonZavoda wrote:
    James_Knell wrote:
    Wow... I'm only 13 years late to this discussion.

    I played some D&D in the early 1980s and decided to get back in the game recently. Started reading about Greyhawk, found Border Watch, and decided it was a great setting with a bad plot. So I'm writing my own version. That's what the Old School preached.

    The oversite of Castle Hart's location on the bank of the junction of the Crystal and Veng Rivers is stunning, but I always figured TSR and the world of game design & publishing was like that.

    I really appreciate the work that went into writing this untidy Castle Hart history.


    Welcome aboard. There is an immense amount of information and material here on Canonfire.
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    Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:20 am  

    Hi Longetalos,

    Yes, Furyondy and the Flare Line have caught my imagination for sure. I would be interested to read of some of the high points of your long campaign.

    One of my goals is to make the travel more interesting than a wandering monster table. I've shaved a few days off the travel times. What's on that road? Refugees returning guarded by some Knights of Hart. Messengers. Wyverns flying high over head. Hobgoblin gallays patrolling the Veng River. Random stuff that probably shouldn't be there but is. Any ideas?

    I am trying to move as much of the DM narration to NPCs. Every evening there is a campfire or heathside briefing by one of the 3 merchants to preview the towns. I've either borrowed or made maps of Greatwall, Morsten, Fort Belvor, Fendrelan, BP3 "Fort Disaster", and BP4 "Fort Critwall". The remains of Castle Hart will be shrouded in mist and foreboding enough that the players will follow the advice of the merchants and stay on the road.

    I've dropped Krayquer and the Lizardman, so there is no reason not to let the party go to Willip and maybe back to Greatwall to complete the mission. Then maybe figure out where this Iuzian camp within Furyondy is and what to do about it. A mine seems like the kind of place where a fiend might escape the effect of the Crook of Rao so I'm thinking of putting a Hezrou down there.
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    Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:48 am  

    Hi James,

    I actually have a full write up of the campaign in pdf. It is not great because it was mostly written by the players but if you want it I can send to you.

    If you join the Canonfire Discord chat and send me a Private Message I can attach it to my reply.

    Rich "Longetalos" D.
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