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    Canonfire :: View topic - Military Ranks in Greyhawk
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Military Ranks in Greyhawk
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 17, 2004
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    From: Cullman, AL

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    Thu May 20, 2004 8:22 am  
    Military Ranks in Greyhawk

    I am wondering if there has ever been an article or supplement that detailed the military ranks in use in the Great Kingdom or Ahlissa. In particular, I'm curious about the Glorioles Army and the Army of the South. I can easily do my own system for it, but I don't want to later run across some official source that contradicts it. I like to keep things consistant for my players. Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 03, 2002
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    From: Kingston, ON

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    Thu May 20, 2004 9:00 am  

    I have never seen anything official (or unofficial) on rank titles. I think your best bet would be to take the unit composition info from Ivid the Undying and base a rank structure on the different types of units prevelent in each army.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 17, 2004
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    From: Cullman, AL

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    Thu May 20, 2004 9:05 am  

    donimator wrote:
    I have never seen anything official (or unofficial) on rank titles. I think your best bet would be to take the unit composition info from Ivid the Undying and base a rank structure on the different types of units prevelent in each army.


    Thanks. That was my plan if I couldn't find anything official. I think I use Ivid the Undying more than I do his published supplements.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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    From: Rel Astra

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    Thu May 20, 2004 9:18 am  

    Hey, I'd be interested in seeing what you coem up with as a Canonfire submission, Adhevan Wink
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    CF Admin

    Joined: Jan 09, 2004
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    From: Stansbury Park, Utah

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    Thu May 20, 2004 9:30 am  
    Check Our Meta-orgs

    Hey, all.

    adhevan, check Nyrond's legionary structure in our Meta-org document HERE. Page 80 has a rank structure detailing enlisted and officer ranks.

    Let us know what you ultimately decide. Keep in mind the kind of army you are considering. Are looking at legions, Hoplite-style phalanxes, a horde of skirmishers, etcetera.
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    Don (Greyson)
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    From: Cullman, AL

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    Thu May 20, 2004 10:16 am  

    I've already looked at the Nyrond stuff. I even attempted looking at the LG stuff for Ahlissa, but since I don't read german that was pretty fruitless. I'll probably end up going with something similar to Nyrond, but since the Aerdi use titles like Graf and Herzog, I was thinking of going with something a little more Prussian in feel. I'm also trying to decide on magical units. I can't decide if I want to group them like artillery units or more like heavy weapons squads where I'd have 8 regular infantrymen and two mages. Although, given the typical social position of magic-users in Aerdi, it would not be unreasonable to have mages all be officers, much like pilots are in modern militaries. In any event, I see them as special units and not really a separate legion. I have not decided on what to do with priests yet, either. If I include them, I think their numbers will be small. Most of them involved in the military would be in the Church armies.

    Once I decide, and if I don't find something published elsewhere first, I'll post it.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 22, 2001
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    From: Montevideo (Uruguay)

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    Thu May 20, 2004 10:44 am  

    Hi,

    Maybe this link is useful for what you want: http://thepale.org/pale/prelatalarmy.htm

    Saludos,
    Gabriel
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    Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:34 am  

    Unsurprising the links provided appear to be dead.

    I'd think that most military ranks would be very cursory even in the Great Kingdom. Captains and companies could be any number of troops without definite regimentation. I would think that the Suel Imperium had ranks and military structure, but it is still something of the Dark Ages in the Flanaess and I cant envision a very organized military structure.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    From: Clarksville, TN

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    Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:30 am  

    If you're looking for Old School , references, I don't have it on me right now, but Kuntz's article in Dragon #59 (March 1982) “The Great Kingdom and the Knights of Doom”, mentions a few Great Kingdom units and the ranks which command them. Other articles from the series mentioned senior ranking Great Kingdom officers in passing.

    IIRC, there were passing references to Great Kingdom commanders in Saga of Old City (Gord #1).

    I'm sure someone can list the ranks from the Nyrond triad by hand. They're clearly inspired by the Roman legions, which seems reasonable. I assume that Nyrond's ranks would have diverged from Aerdi's over the years, of course.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
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    From: Canada

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    Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:20 pm  

    A more formalized ranking system is one of those anomalies from real-life medieval Europe that I can accept in the Flanaess, with titles such as Sergeant, Colonel, Admiral and General. These are even implied in everything from the 1E DMG (with its descriptions of 'serjeants' as some of the followers players can attract, and the effectiveness of army officers) to both the 1983 boxed set and the LGG using titles such as General and Admiral to describe everyone from the commander of Nyrond's armies to the ruler of the Sea Barons. You could use the real-life ranking system of a modern military and it would arguably fit.

    I wrote a thread on this a few years ago describing various anachronisms in Greyhawk. These range from card games that wouldn't exist in the real world until the 19th or 20th centuries being played in barracks and taverns to the separation of church and state, which didn't start spreading in the West until the Enlightenment and isn't fully accepted even today.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    From: Clarksville, TN

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    Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:51 am  

    CruelSummerLord wrote:
    A more formalized ranking system is one of those anomalies from real-life medieval Europe that I can accept in the Flanaess, with titles such as Sergeant, Colonel, Admiral and General...


    -13th and 14th Century England had decenars (leader of a 10-man squad), ventenars (20 men), centenars (100 men, same root as "centurion"), and millenars (1000 men).

    Back to Adheven's OP.

    Great Kingdom ranks mentioned in Rob Kuntz's "Sorcerer's Scroll" article include captains, "greater captains" (a rank, or a category?), colonels, and "generals of campaigns". There were two marshals: One for the north and east, and one for the south and west (see "Demonic Knights of Doom", Dragon #59). Again, for South province specifically, the Dragon #57 article mentions General Reynard ("General" being capitalized, so it's a specific rank, not a general description).

    From an old school perspective, I don't know of anything canonical about ranks lower than captain regarding South Province or the Great Kingdom, it would have to be deduced. Gygax mentioned lieutenants and sergeants in Stoink during Gord's stay there (Gord was a lieutenant, IIRC), and Stoink could have used Great Kingdom terminology.
    Forum Moderator

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    Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:11 am  

    I put something together for the ranks of the Gran March -- since that is the most militarized (non-noble) type army in the Flanaess.

    You can find my Gran March gazetteer in the Canonfire Downloads section.

    http://canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=10
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    Richard Di Ioia (aka Longetalos)
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    Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:48 am  

    jamesdglick wrote:
    CruelSummerLord wrote:
    A more formalized ranking system is one of those anomalies from real-life medieval Europe that I can accept in the Flanaess, with titles such as Sergeant, Colonel, Admiral and General...


    -13th and 14th Century England had decenars (leader of a 10-man squad), ventenars (20 men), centenars (100 men, same root as "centurion"), and millenars (1000 men).

    Back to Adheven's OP.

    Great Kingdom ranks mentioned in Rob Kuntz's "Sorcerer's Scroll" article include captains, "greater captains" (a rank, or a category?), colonels, and "generals of campaigns". There were two marshals: One for the north and east, and one for the south and west (see "Demonic Knights of Doom", Dragon #59). Again, for South province specifically, the Dragon #57 article mentions General Reynard ("General" being capitalized, so it's a specific rank, not a general description).

    From an old school perspective, I don't know of anything canonical about ranks lower than captain regarding South Province or the Great Kingdom, it would have to be deduced. Gygax mentioned lieutenants and sergeants in Stoink during Gord's stay there (Gord was a lieutenant, IIRC), and Stoink could have used Great Kingdom terminology.


    Gord was a Subaltern.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    From: Clarksville, TN

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    Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:02 pm  
    Re: Military Ranks in Greyhawk

    adhevan wrote:
    I am wondering if there has ever been an article or supplement that detailed the military ranks in use in the Great Kingdom or Ahlissa. In particular, I'm curious about the Glorioles Army and the Army of the South. I can easily do my own system for it, but I don't want to later run across some official source that contradicts it. I like to keep things consistant for my players. Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.


    -This isn't Great Kingdom information, but Nyrond, being a breakaway state, was likely influenced by the Great Kingdom.

    From Living Greyhawk's Nyrond Gazeteer 593 (I downloaded this a long time ago, apparently in 2004, but I can't find it on the net, so here goes):

    The Legions (Regular Army):
    General (commands a Legion)
    Praetor (commands a "Division"- more like a Battalion)
    Major
    Captain (commands a Company)
    Tribune
    Major Serjeant (with the 17th C "j")
    Serjeant
    Corporal
    Legionnaire
    Note: 60-100 men per Company; 10 Companies per Division (1st Division of every Company contains specialized units, including the senior officers in 1st Company); 6-14 Divisions per Legion.

    The Cavalry (Noble Heavy Cavalry): Follows "lines of nobility".

    The Militia (Local Forces, including part-time forces):
    Local Lord
    Captain
    Lieutenant
    Serjeant
    Soldier

    The Navy:
    Admiral Magnus (Fleet commander, apparently equivalent to a Legion)
    Commander
    Lieutenant
    Ensign
    Chief Petty Officer
    Petty Officer
    Seaman 1st Class
    Seaman 2nd Class
    Seaman 3rd Class

    Personally, I think it's a little too Empirey, but I accept it, as I accept almost anything with a claim to canon status. I think it might actually be a better fit for the Great Kingdom, FWIW.
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