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    Canonfire :: View topic - The "infinity" of planes...
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    The "infinity" of planes...
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
    Posts: 40
    From: Naperville, IL

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    Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:07 pm  
    The "infinity" of planes...

    My head hurts just thinking about it. According to the Manual of the Planes, the elemental planes are of "infinite" size which means they go on and on with no end. Then how can there be "border" planes to form para-elemental and quasi-elemental planes? If the plane is infinite, how can it have a border but no end? Stop the maddness! Shocked
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    Rhineglade the Dreamcaster
    Member of the Indigo Order
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    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    From: Wichita, KS, USA

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    Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:14 am  

    For some solid planar advice, dig up a copy of Dragon 37 or Best of Dragon #2 or the Dragon CD Rom, and read "From the City of Brass to Dead Orc Pass... The Theory and Use of Gates" by Ed Greenwood. It's a pretty good intro to planar stuff, mostly from a literary point of view.

    In addition, of course, you'll want to read the Manuals of the Planes (1e and 3e). I would also highly recommend The Primal Order books by WotC (per MtG, c. 1992), specifically Chessboards, which deals with planes as its primary focus (they only get one chapter in the main TPO book).
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
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    Joined: Jun 28, 2001
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    Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:10 am  

    Heh, if a human brain could comprehend it, it wouldn't hurt to think about it. ;-)

    My speculation, Rhineglade.....is that the borders between planes occur because they exist in higher dimensions, not just in the first 3 dimensions of "space" as we know it.

    Imagine two infinite sheets of paper (2-dimensional sheets) intersecting at an angle to one another (say perpendicular.) These two sheets must exist in a 3-dimensional frame of reference to intersect. Though both are infinite in 2-dimensions, they would have a well-defined 1-dimensional border along the line where they intersect, that is a line. If you lived on one of those sheets, you could cross to the other sheet along that line of intersection, even though your home sheet appeared (and was in fact) infinite.

    Course planes of existence in D&D are higher dimensional objects (3, 4, who knows how many dimensions...we only see 3 and conceive of 4.) Even drawing the intersection of two 3-dimensional objects is diffucult on paper (the area of intersection would be 2-dimensional, i.e. a wall). The Manual of the Planes tries to show this, but it is not easy to understand. Drawing the intersection of 2 even higher dimensional objects would be impossible (unless you could see at least n-1 of those n dimensions, which humans can't.)

    Anyway, long story short, it is possible for infinite objects to contain borders. Two objects of the same n-dimension (like infinite planes of existence) intersecting would have a border of n-1 dimension (also infinite) and the frame of reference of the intersection takes place in n+1 dimensions.

    Whew.

    -Gary
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
    Posts: 40
    From: Naperville, IL

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    Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:46 am  

    Thanks for the help. Now answer me this: if a train traveling from Boston to Chicago is going 67 mph... Wink
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    Rhineglade the Dreamcaster
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