For anyone who has the Manual of the Planes, the bits on GH god's personal realms are quite good and often overlooked areas of discussion. Here is a quick run down, maybe some of these places will strike some interest.
Hall of the Valiant (Ysgard) Kord's Realm, a grand hall built of stouts beams of wood hewn from a single massive ash tree.
Den of Olidammar (Ysgard) Wood, stone and stranger substances create a grand but haphazard structure, as if several mansions of various cultures were mashed together.
Citadel of Slaughter (Phlegethon, Pandemonium) Erythnul's realm, a tumbled ruin of some vast citadel that is now infested with battle-mad petitioners who seek to slay each other.
Necromanteion (Agathys, Carceri) Nerull's realm, a black citadel carved out of ice, where the souls of the dead are frozen flush into the floors, ceiling and walls.
Scourgehold (Avalas, Acheron) Hextor's realm, a many walled edifice of iron and stone, bristling with watch towers and roving seige engines. Inside is the Great Colliseum, a miles wide arena where his forces train.
Cabal Macabre (Ocanthus, Acheron) Wee Jas' realm, is built on the surface of boundary ice is a crystaline castle of delicate yet horrifying architecture. It glows with its own radiance.
The Basilica of St Cuthbert (Abellio, Arcadia) High walls are manned by specially chosen paladins. Inside is the basilica whoe largest dome is a mile high.
Fortress of the Sun (Thalasia, Elsyium) Pelor's realm, was once a manor surrounded by orchards and is now a gold-plated citadel that forms a beacon atop the largest island of Thalasia.
THe Grove of the Unicorns (Krigala, Beastlands) Ehlonna's realm, a grove that is canopied by a cluster of great sequoia trees.
Hidden Wood of Obad Hai (Outlands) A patchwork of forests, glades and fields. Usually only found by those who get lost.
Library of Lore (Outlands) Boccob's realm, a sprawling citadel atop a barren bluff. Only a single stair reaches the entrance and inside the library is a maze of passages, rooms and armories.
Excellent, useful info Mort. Thanks so much for posting! And of course I'd like to see more. I've never been very well versed on where the GH gods are specifically located in the planes. _________________ Never get into fights with ugly people, they have nothing to lose.
As I was browsing my 83 Guide I noticed an interesting discrepency. Ehlonna in the 3.x is given the Beastlands as a homeplane, which anybody could logically assume, but according to previous canon source her plane is the Prime Material.
Now I look to the next page and Fharlanghn's home plane is listed as Oerth (Prime Material Plane). So is this an editing inconsistency or do we assume maybe that Ehlonna is free to roam ANY Prime Plane whereas Fharlanghn is stuck on just Oerth. I think its possible, being the huntress and warden of forests that she would go to a myriad of home planes to experience the flora and fauna. So with that wide of range, her ending up in the Beastlands as well isn't much of a stretch, but still curious.
Many things depend on the cosmology of one's campaign.
IMC, I tend to rely on the 1e version of things and the lil diagram at the back of the PHB. However, I've been fascinated by Rasgon's posts, which often fold Planescape into Oerth and braid it back again. See, e.g., http://greyhawkonline.com/pitsofevil/viewtopic.php?t=4586
So in the wide/long/deep/timely/etc. multiverse, I think that's right--Fharlanghn's head is connected to Oerth. While some might believe that the Wanderer should roam throughout the Prime Material Plane of a particular universe, Fharlanghn may be one of the few gods who is so deeply tied to this particular Prime--Oerth.
Since I never learned about Spelljammer, I can't really talk about its spheres, but the old D&D Immortals set suggested that some paragons/gods cycle through im/mortality--that it is not merely progression from mortal fallibility to immortal folly but rather that it is possible to leave eternity behind and return to mortal life.
Perhaps is Fharlanghn walking a path like this one?
Regarding the Bright Lady, dear Ehlonna of the Forests, when I think of her as home in the Prime, then I dream about faerie. She lives at the heart of every forest. For people who prefer a singular location, perhaps the hearts of all forests meet on Celene--literally. On its surface or within its hollow, Ehlonna and the Courts of the Faeries may be found.
I've recently read the last two Earthsea books, so I'm remembering the vitality of the forests. "The word for world is forest."
Last edited by mtg on Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:47 am; edited 2 times in total
Hey all. I just posted a version of the post below on GreyTalk and offer it to this folder to engage with the folks who post here.
Recently, in a discussion of the ogre-magi, hags, and oni, Thatotherguy posted a proposal regarding Oerth's cosmology, which I found very interesting because in my currently imagined, hopefully soon to start campaign, Oerth's cosmology is not settled.
While in the past I've accepted the standard "Great Wheel" cosmology inscribed since 1e's PHB, 3e's codification of different cosmologies for the different campaign settings, e.g., FR, has intrigued me, as did Planescape--although I know of that setting primarily via Rip Van Wormer's posts on GreyTalk. I've also enjoyed Maldin's GUT (Grand Unified Theory), which some of you may know. See http://www.melkot.com/mysteries/multiverse.html.
As I've noted elsewher, I've recently started reading the Gord the Rogue novels. They've stimulated my thoughts about Oerth's apparent lack of a spirit world that is comparable to 1e's OA or White Wolf's Werewolf games. Reading the Gord the Rogue novels has stimulated my thoughts about it, but it seems that the Flanaess overall lacks a coterminous natural spirit world. Instead it has the Ethereal, Astral, and Shadow Planes, but none of these seem to mimic Oerth's natural world, i.e., Beory.
Returning to Thatotherguy's post, I've imagined that the Border Ethereal Plane coterminous with the Sufang Empire, a.k.a., the Celestial Imperium, may feature a multitude of nature spirits--far surpassing the relatively few left in the Flanaess.
Reflecting on these differences raises the question of why the Flanaess seems to lack a nature-oriented spirit realm. Did it once "possess" such a dimension? Was the nature-orientation of the Border Ethereal something destroyed by events in Rauxes, Pazrael / Pazuzu's interference in Almor, Iuz's demonic gates, the Twin Cataclsyms, Vecna's Spidered Empire, the siege of the City of Summer Stars, etc.?
Is the speculative nature-orientation of the Flanaess's Border Ethereal like a skein that has been pierced and ripped asunder in several places--and has continued to unravel as the centuries march on?
If so, who aids Beory? Is the role of the Old Faith and part of its decline? Does it madden Obad-hai? Has it driven Ehlonna and the faerie into relatively small pocket dimensions--Fading Lands--connected to Luna or Celene?
Very thought provoking subject. If the concern is nature and the supernatural world, might we also consider the impact of Elemental Evil on the GH cosmology? In addition I seem to recall somewhere that golems are imbued with elemental spirits. Or maybe it is elementals summoned to the prime by spells that are spirits and thats why when they go free willed they are so angry. Ah well.
I like your suggestion that we also consider "the impact of Elemental Evil on the GH cosmology[.]" While I'm ignorant of ToEE (never owned, played, or DMed it), the presence of cults of elemental evil on Oerth and the related idea that so-called "Princes of Elemental Evil" exist (and may be worshipped in parts of Civilized Bakluna) suggests to me that Beory has been assailed for many centuries and in many regions of Oerth.
While elementals may not be of Beory and their purity may be unOerthly, the elements are constitutive of Oerth, at least theoretically. To me it makes sense that those parts of Oerth that became nether-corrupted would begin to resonate with the Princes of Elemental Evil, e.g., the ancient Suloise Imperium, the Bright Desert, that island off the coast of North Kingdom, the ToEE, the lands of Iuz and the Horned Society, Duke Szeffrin's parts of old Almor, etc.
Shifting from Mortellan's idea, below are some more of my reflections on Gygax's cosmology for the Gord the Rogue novels.
I'm now reading Dance of Demons and have come upon the chapters describing Gord, Gellor, and Leda's journey to the place of Tharizdun's imprisonment and the latter's Entropy-abetted escape.
The novel's cosmology seems substantially different than what was presented in 1e's AD&D. For example, Gygax indicates that the route to Tharizdun's prison goes through "the sphere of creative energy" (the Positive Material Plane?), "the Celestial Sphere" (something like outer space), and then to the "Empyreal Sphere." Dance of Demons 269, 276. 329. Also, instead of the lawful outer planes, there are the "Realm of Regularity," "the rigid place of Law," "the province of Order," the Realm of Uniformity," and finally the "abode" of Proctor Chronos. Id. at 329-31.
While I've not finished the book, I hope to discuss how to integrate some of the novel's ideas with our convention understanding of Oerth's cosmology. For example, is Proctor Chronos well-equated with Lendor or Cyndor? While some GH fans have speculated that the novel's supreme trio are above Oerthly gods, we have Maldin's GUT and may benefit from bringing these three closer to Oerth, so to speak.
Similarly, I've not read enough about Lady Tolerance, but the novel's omission of the Suel and Bakluni pantheons is striking, and it seems to me that Istus, the Lady of Fate, the Colorless and All Colored is an entity on par with the novel's supreme trio.
Before I end this post, I also point out that Tharizdun seems less like a supra-god and more like a fortunate or well-allied Greater God. Let's talk about Nerull-Infestix too--and the omission (incorporation?) of Incabulous.
I'm now reading Dance of Demons and have come upon the chapters describing Gord, Gellor, and Leda's journey to the place of Tharizdun's imprisonment and the latter's Entropy-abetted escape.
The novel's cosmology seems substantially different than what was presented in 1e's AD&D. . . . While I've not finished the book, I hope to discuss how to integrate some of the novel's ideas with our convention understanding of Oerth's cosmology. For example, is Proctor Chronos well-equated with Lendor or Cyndor? While some GH fans have speculated that the novel's supreme trio are above Oerthly gods, we have Maldin's GUT and may benefit from bringing these three closer to Oerth, so to speak.
Similarly, I've not read enough about Lady Tolerance, but the novel's omission of the Suel and Bakluni pantheons is striking, and it seems to me that Istus, the Lady of Fate, the Colorless and All Colored is an entity on par with the novel's supreme trio.
Before I end this post, I also point out that Tharizdun seems less like a supra-god and more like a fortunate or well-allied Greater God. Let's talk about Nerull-Infestix too--and the omission (incorporation?) of Incabulous.
It has always been my understanding that the Gord novels disguise the Greyhawk analogs for any number of people, places and personages. Infestix is thus Incabulous, who for legal reasons, EGG could not mention. Etc.
That said, do we acknowledge this with a wink or do we attempt a more fullsome reconciliation? Never have settled on which way to go in my own mind.
I agree about Tharizdun. Boy, those novels "demystified" him for me. _________________ GVD
"the Celestial Sphere" (something like outer space), and then to the "Empyreal Sphere."
The two outermost spheres of Heaven in Dante's Divine Comedy (Paradiso). Beyond the sphere of Saturn was the Sphere of Fixed Stars, beyond that was the Primum Mobile, the unmoved mover of the stars and planets, and finally the Empyreal Sphere, where the Throne of God was.
They should be considered three extra layers of the Seven Heavens beyond Chronia.
Quote:
For example, is Proctor Chronos well-equated with Lendor or Cyndor?
Neither one, according to Gygax. Chronos is not Lendor and Tolerance is not Istus - along with Entropy, they're greater beings beyond the gods, perhaps as far beyond them as the gods are beyond mortals.
Many of the gods were renamed gods of Oerth - Gargantua is Zagyg and St. Trowbane is St. Cuthbert - but not those three.
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