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    Canonfire :: View topic - Bard vs Bard...
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    Bard vs Bard...
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 13
    From: Upstate NY

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    Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:56 am  
    Bard vs Bard...

    Hello all. I'm an old gamer that hasn't really gamed much over the last few years, but I'm about to start up a new game with some co-workers. My earliest years were Greyhawk, so that's what I'll be using. My group will be using 3.5, which we are all new to.

    I want to allow, for the most part, just the core classes but I want to retain that old feel. My question is if I want to use the Old Lore bard from OJ15, should I not allow the core bard? Should the druidic bard be a complete replacement, or should I allow both the Old Lore and the core bard class? Sort of old style with new "trend" bards, or just a different tradition of bards?

    Hopefully my question comes through clear...I'm writing this on only three hours sleep....heh heh.

    Thank you.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
    Posts: 580
    From: British Isles

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    Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:24 am  

    I think you could allow both the Old Lore bard and the new bard. The Old Lore bard would retain all the original aspects of the earlier edition bard whilst the bard as seen in edition 3.5 could be labelled as a minstrel or troubadour perhaps? Music is such a fundamental part of many cultures it would not be strange to have two paths that focus on music.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 176


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    Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:31 am  

    Except for the OJ15 version being illegal under the D&D3.x ruleset, and it's ridiculous number of levels for a prestige class, sure, it's great.

    My version, and a discussion of my thoughts in designing it are here
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 13
    From: Upstate NY

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    Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:26 pm  

    Thanks, I like that one very much. Don't mind me using it, eh?
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 176


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    Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:35 am  

    Nah. A few things I forgot. The bardic lore modifier is twice level plus Int modifier (thus, it is 20 plus Int mod at 10th level and increases by one point after that IAW epic level rules; basically equal to a non-prestige bard's bardic knowledge check) and the spell list.

    Essentiallty a fusion of the bard and ranger lists, I removed some spells with overlap (like summon monster) and generally used the lower level when there was conflict (cure spells). Again, this is a 3e spell list, feel free to update with 3.5 versions if you want.

    0-LEVEL OLD LORE SPELLS (CANTRIPS)

    Dancing Lights
    Daze
    Detect Magic
    Flare
    Ghost Sound
    Light
    Mage Hand
    Mending
    Open/Close
    Prestidigitation
    Read Magic
    Resistance

    1st-LEVEL OLD LORE SPELLS

    Alarm
    Animal Friendship
    Cause Fear
    Charm Person
    Cure Light Wounds
    Delay Poison
    Detect Secret Doors
    Detect Animals or Plants
    Detect Snares and Pits
    Entangle
    Erase
    Expeditious Retreat
    Feather Fall
    Grease
    Hypnotism
    Identify
    Magic Fang
    Magic Weapon
    Message
    Pass without Trace
    Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
    Resist Elements
    Silent Image
    Sleep
    Speak with Animals
    Summon Nature's Ally I
    Unseen Servant
    Ventriloquism

    2nd-LEVEL OLD LORE SPELLS

    Animal Messenger
    Animal Trance
    Blindness/ Deafness
    Blur
    Bull's Strength
    Cat's Grace
    Cure Moderate Wounds
    Darkness
    Daylight
    Delay Poison
    Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
    Detect Thoughts
    Enthrall
    Glitterdust
    Hold Animal
    Hold Person
    Hypnotic Pattern
    Invisibility
    Levitate
    Locate Object
    Magic Mouth
    Minor Image
    Mirror Image
    Misdirection
    Obscure Object
    Protection from Elements
    Pyrotechnics
    Scare
    See Invisibility
    Shatter
    Silence
    Snare
    Sound Burst
    Speak with Plants
    Suggestion
    Summon Nature's Ally II
    Summon Swarm
    Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
    Tongues
    Undetectable Alignment
    Whispering Wind

    3rd-LEVEL OLD LORE SPELLS

    Bestow Curse
    Blink
    Charm Monster
    Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
    Confusion
    Control Plants
    Cure Serious Wounds
    Diminish Plants
    Dispel Magic
    Displacement
    Emotion
    Fear
    Gaseous Form
    Greater Magic Fang
    Greater Magic Weapon
    Gust of Wind
    Haste
    Illusory Script
    Invisibility Sphere
    Keen Edge
    Lesser Geas
    Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
    Major Image
    Neutralize Poison
    Phantom Steed
    Plant Growth
    Remove Curse
    Remove Disease
    Scrying
    Sculpt Sound
    Sepia Snake Sigil
    Slow
    Summon Nature's Ally III
    Tiny Hut
    Tree Shape
    Water Walk
    Wind Wall

    4th-LEVEL OLD LORE SPELLS

    Break Enchantment
    Cure Critical Wounds
    Detect Scrying
    Dimension Door
    Dismissal
    Dominate Person
    Freedom of Movement
    Hallucinatory Terrain
    Hold Monster
    Improved Invisibility
    Legend Lore
    Locate Creature
    Modify Memory
    Neutralize Poison
    Nondetection
    Polymorph Self
    Rainbow Pattern
    Secure Shelter
    Shout
    Summon Nature's Ally IV
    Tree Stride

    5th-LEVEL OLD LORE SPELLS

    Contact Other Plane
    Control Water
    Dream
    False Vision
    Greater Dispelling
    Healing Circle
    Mind Fog
    Mirage Arcana
    Mislead
    Nightmare
    Persistent Image
    Summon Nature’s Ally V

    6th-LEVEL OLD LORE SPELLS

    Control Weather
    Eyebite
    Geas/Quest
    Greater Scrying
    Mass Haste
    Mass Suggestion
    Permanent Image
    Plane Shift
    Programmed Image
    Project Image
    Repulsion
    Summon Nature’s Ally VI
    Veil
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 176


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    Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:39 am  

    Also, check out website (that little button onthe bottom of this post) for other stuff.
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