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    Canonfire :: View topic - What's beneath Greyhawk City?
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    What's beneath Greyhawk City?
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:34 pm  
    What's beneath Greyhawk City?

    I was just wondering what's under the city of Greyhawk. A lot of fantasy cities are built on top of an ancient civilisation. Waterdeep, for example, is built on top of ancient dwarven ruins. Also, Cauldren from the Shackled City adventure path has many old ruins beneath it.

    To my knowledge, Greyhawk wasn't built on top of anything but it does feature an extensive and labyrinthine sewer system.

    How accessable is the Underdark from below Greyhawk?

    Is there an under city as such for "dungeon-delving" adventures below Greyhawk?

    I guess one concern is that every city seems to have such easy connectivity to the Underdark and I didn't want to over do it in my campaign.

    Thanks Happy
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    Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:44 pm  

    Seen this map?
    http://melkot.com/locations/cogh/cogh.html
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    Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:11 pm  

    Greyhawk doesn't have an underdark tie I would say. It -does- have extensive sewer works as the link to Maldin's site relates. Add to these facts in the City of GH box set there are several underground lairs, some of cults like Incabulos.

    Age of Worms adds some extensive underground 'dungeons' and cave systems below the Arena. There is also another issue that adds an underground lair/ cavern system on the west of the city presumably under the Selintan.
    GreySage

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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:54 am  
    Re: What's beneath Greyhawk City?

    1. Greyhawk was built on top of an earlier Suel settlement, fisherfolk and farmers. If you dig in the right places, you might find ancient rusted fish-hooks and hoes, and the bones of fish (and the small ubiquitous hawks common to the area). Eventually, a log trading post was built to exhange goods with the Ferroi and Nehron Oeridians.

    2. This was built on top of an earlier Flan settlement, but that's more of interest to archaeologists than adventurers. If you dig in the right places, you might find evidence of ancient fire pits, broken crockery, and bronze or iron tools. Far below that, you might find similar relics left by the builders of StoneRing. Far below that, you'll find stone spear points and the like.

    1a. Jim Ward ran an adventure at a Gen Con one year that revealed that Greyhawk was built on top of an ancient yuan-ti city. Um, whatever. Not canon.

    2. Besides the sewer system, which was built by Zagig, there are extensive secret tunnels built by the Thieves' Guild and other clandestine organizations. There are also abandoned cisterns, catacombs for burying the common dead, tombs for the noble dead, and many more such labyrinths. Most common encounters are giant crayfish, giant crocodiles, giant rats, giant and poisonous snakes, giant centipedes, monstrous spiders, bats, carrion crawlers, otyughs, and black puddings.

    3. Some of the rumors of things to be found beneath the Free City, according to the City of Greyhawk boxed set, are a cult of disgusting snake worshippers and a "fabulous city under the city" in the Underdark beneath the city, filled with peaceful, exotic sapients and fungus that lights the golden and silver rooftops as bright as the day. Neither of these rumors are necessarily true, but there are those in the City of Greyhawk who believe them.

    4. Definitely beneath the City of Greyhawk are shrines to Orcus, Incabulos, and Nerull. Most of the Thieves' and Assassins Guild headquarters are here, and there is a network of caverns where the people of the Citadel keep stockpiles of dried food, wines and ales, deep wells, and so on to help protect the city in the event of siege. There is also a cult of wererats, and a chamber containing a fragment of the Staff of Fraz-Urb'luu.

    To answer your questions, you can probably get to the Underdark eventually through the caverns below the city, but I'd say it's not readily accessible. There is definitely an undercity, but it's mostly controlled by various guilds, sinister cults, dwarves, and private individuals, so adventurers can't just run around slaughtering everything and taking all the treasure they find without worrying about reprisals.

    Most of the "dungeon-delving" done by adventurers of the City of Hawks is done beneath Castle Greyhawk nearby or in the Cairn Hills. Castle Greyhawk is perhaps the original D&D dungeon, and the City of Greyhawk is the town where the PCs went to resupply. It is the wealth found beneath Castle Greyhawk that funded the city's most recent renaissance.

    For dungeon delving, people go beneath Castle Greyhawk. Greyhawk's undercity is for clandestine deeds and also sewage (which I suppose qualifies as a clandestine deed). There are caverns and rumors of Underdark connections beneath the city as well, however.
    CF Admin

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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:10 am  

    For reference, here's the pic from the original sewers beneath the City of Greyhawk, which did connect to the Castle: http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/temp/RJK184.jpg
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:14 am  
    Re: What's beneath Greyhawk City?

    rasgon wrote:
    1a. Jim Ward ran an adventure at a Gen Con one year that revealed that Greyhawk was built on top of an ancient yuan-ti city. Um, whatever. Not canon.


    Hmmm, I hadn't heard this one. Any idea which GenCon year or other details about the tourney?

    rasgon wrote:
    For dungeon delving, people go beneath Castle Greyhawk. Greyhawk's undercity is for clandestine deeds and also sewage (which I suppose qualifies as a clandestine deed). There are caverns and rumors of Underdark connections beneath the city as well, however.


    Several other RJK/EGG adventures were set in/under the city, either directly, or between the city and the Castle dungeons. A quick read through RJK's bibliography @ http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=125 will offer further details/ideas.
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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:27 am  

    Grodog,

    I don't imagine you have scans of those maps?
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:51 pm  

    Michael, Rob has scans of all of the interesting stuff that he's sold, and will be releasing most of those at some point as products, with a few different options format-wise.

    You can see more info, for example, on the Bottle City level (originally from Castle Greyhawk) at http://www.pied-piper-publishing.com/index.php/products/bottle_city

    I don't belive that the sewers maps are on the near-term slate of stuff to be released, but I wouldn't be surprised if they saw print sometime in the next year or two.
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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:48 pm  
    Re: What's beneath Greyhawk City?

    grodog wrote:
    Hmmm, I hadn't heard this one. Any idea which GenCon year or other details about the tourney?


    No, my information came from a post to the Greytalk list at least six years ago.
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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:15 pm  

    There is (was) a connection to the Underdark at the bottom of the War Tower in Greyhawk Ruins, but its blocked by a virtually indestructable "adamantite" pyramid. As well, my sewers map and Rasgon's good list have already been pointed to.

    Denis, aka "Maldin"
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    Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:24 am  

    grodog wrote:
    Michael, Rob has scans of all of the interesting stuff that he's sold, and will be releasing most of those at some point as products, with a few different options format-wise.

    You can see more info, for example, on the Bottle City level (originally from Castle Greyhawk) at http://www.pied-piper-publishing.com/index.php/products/bottle_city

    I don't belive that the sewers maps are on the near-term slate of stuff to be released, but I wouldn't be surprised if they saw print sometime in the next year or two.


    Thanks, I was just curious. Looks like good stuff and I'll keep my eyes peeled.
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:38 pm  
    Re: What's beneath Greyhawk City?

    rasgon wrote:
    No, my information came from a post to the Greytalk list at least six years ago.


    Hmmm, another good reason to get the archives up and running. I'll have to ping Rich for an update on what he's up to....
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:53 am  

    It's refreshing to hear that other people don't think Greyhawk City would have easy access to the Underdark. I don't like to overdo the Underdark. In some settings it seems you can access the Underdark as easily as taking a morning stroll in the park.

    Labyrinthine sewers and cisterns that drop away into lightless spaces is what's below Greyhawk. Sure, you'll find a connection to the Underdark if you really try, but it's not readily accessible. This is what I've gathered from the Gord the Rogue novels anyway . . .

    grodog
    Those Rob Kuntz maps of what's below Greyhawk are fascinating. It'd be great to see such things in print one day. Indeed, it would be great to see Gygax's/Kuntz's version of Greyhawk one day but I don't think that would ever happen . . .

    Thanks for everyone's responses Happy
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    Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:19 pm  

    dead wrote:
    Labyrinthine sewers and cisterns that drop away into lightless spaces is what's below Greyhawk. Sure, you'll find a connection to the Underdark if you really try, but it's not readily accessible. This is what I've gathered from the Gord the Rogue novels anyway . . .


    I have a connection to the UnderOerth in the lowest levels of my version of Castle Greyhawk, but that's about it, offhand.

    dead wrote:
    grodog: Those Rob Kuntz maps of what's below Greyhawk are fascinating. It'd be great to see such things in print one day. Indeed, it would be great to see Gygax's/Kuntz's version of Greyhawk one day but I don't think that would ever happen . . .


    We can keep hoping :D
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