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    Canonfire :: View topic - Clerical Titles
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Clerical Titles
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:20 pm  
    Clerical Titles

    Anybody ever tried to make sense out of the clerical titles given in the various canon GH documents in regards to relative rank, faith and/or location?

    Based on Archcleric, Censor, Theocrat, and Prelate being included in the list of Royal and Noble Precedence and General Honorifics in the '83 box set, and the rulers that hold those titles (Veluna, Medegia, Pale, Almor and what looks like provinces of the Pale, respectively) I'm assuming them to apply to holders of ecclesiastical fiefs. Incidentally since there is a Prelatal Palace and Prelatal Army in Wintershiven I suppose that the Theocrat also holds the title of Prelate, unless there is also a Prelate of Wintershiven.

    Canons appear mainly in the central Flanaess (Veluna and Verbobonc) among the priesthood of Rao, but there are also canons in the Lendore Isles based on L1 and L2 so we can assume that's a widely occurring title? Also the holders of the title seem to range from the head of a single church all the way up to the Archcleric of Veluna, so there must be some other meaning to it, possibly in the real-world sense of belonging to certain orders.

    High Priest could be construed as being a generic term applied to the chief cleric in a particular location whether a small village or large city.

    Patriarch and Bishop seem to be used similarly, much like in the real-world. Patriarch-general seems to be exclusive to the cult of Hextor.

    Archon makes one appearance (In C-1) and seems to be applied to the ruler of Pontylver who is also a religious leader. We might assume from this it is an administrative rank within the hierarchy of Medegia (And possibly in other places).

    Abbot seems to be used similarly to real-world usage and the onlu appearance of curate I found (In L1 and L2) indicate a junior priest in a particular temple.

    Caliph need not be discussed.

    Anybody got any more or different ideas?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 563
    From: brazil

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    Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:04 pm  

    really liked!

    about 2 weeks, i was trying to understand what a "canon" is (its a "canone" here, and that didnt help).

    so, some minutes later, i found it and it fit well to terjon, canon of st. cuthbert.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
    Posts: 934
    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:34 am  

    I tried to incorporate these references in my Deitybase™. It's all in there, but it's scattered throughout the various deity pages (i.e., clerics of Hextor use these titles, those of St. Cuthbert use these, etc.). I don't have the ambition to go back through the whole thing right now and compile a list, but it's in there if someone wants to do the work.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 563
    From: brazil

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    Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:33 am  

    DMPrata wrote:
    I tried to incorporate these references in my Deitybase™. It's all in there, but it's scattered throughout the various deity pages (i.e., clerics of Hextor use these titles, those of St. Cuthbert use these, etc.). I don't have the ambition to go back through the whole thing right now and compile a list, but it's in there if someone wants to do the work.


    DMPrata, great work there!

    i just coulnd't find heironeous

    (OOOPS...just foud, sorry)


    and about kyuss picture...are sure that was him?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 429
    From: Renton WA

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    Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:39 am  

    Quote:
    Canons appear mainly in the central Flanaess (Veluna and Verbobonc) among the priesthood of Rao, but there are also canons in the Lendore Isles based on L1 and L2 so we can assume that's a widely occurring title? Also the holders of the title seem to range from the head of a single church all the way up to the Archcleric of Veluna, so there must be some other meaning to it, possibly in the real-world sense of belonging to certain orders.

    High Priest could be construed as being a generic term applied to the chief cleric in a particular location whether a small village or large city.

    Patriarch and Bishop seem to be used similarly, much like in the real-world.
    these were all "level" titles for clerics in 1e, which is why they are often encountered in older sources.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

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    Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:39 am  
    Re: Clerical Titles

    smillan_31 wrote:
    there are also canons in the Lendore Isles based on L1 and L2 so we can assume that's a widely occurring title?


    Since the language of Lendore is Lendorian Suel rather than Common, I'd assume that this was a "translation" of the actual (Suel-derived) title (possibly by translators from Verbobonc!), and doesn't really sound anything like Canon.

    Quote:
    Archon makes one appearance (In C-1) and seems to be applied to the ruler of Pontylver who is also a religious leader. We might assume from this it is an administrative rank within the hierarchy of Medegia (And possibly in other places).


    Or possibly something exclusive to the church of Stern Alia?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:21 pm  

    cwslyclgh wrote:
    these were all "level" titles for clerics in 1e, which is why they are often encountered in older sources.


    Excellent point, and now that I go back and look at these sources their levels do all correspond to the 1e level titles.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:34 pm  
    Re: Clerical Titles

    rasgon wrote:
    smillan_31 wrote:
    Archon makes one appearance (In C-1) and seems to be applied to the ruler of Pontylver who is also a religious leader. We might assume from this it is an administrative rank within the hierarchy of Medegia (And possibly in other places).


    Or possibly something exclusive to the church of Stern Alia?


    That's a good alternative. I had always thought it had only been used by the ancient greeks, but it turns out to be a title used by the Orthodox and Coptic Churches for leading lay members. Which is interesting but it doesn't really help in GH since it seems pretty clear that the Pontylver Archon is ordained.
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