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    Canonfire :: View topic - How I came to Greyhawk & Call for Advice (LONG rant inc.
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    How I came to Greyhawk & Call for Advice (LONG rant inc.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 25, 2008
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    Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:08 am  
    How I came to Greyhawk & Call for Advice (LONG rant inc.

    Hello good people of Canonfire!,
    I’m one of the new not-so-new-ones, and this is my – rather lengthy – story and also a callout for advice to a “newbie”.
    If you’re not interested in my roleplaying-life’s story (and there’s actually no good reason for you to be!), but want to help me out with the questions, feel free to skip to the end of this post after the three asterisks.

    First, I’m a longtime pen-and-paper-player and gamemaster, but rather not so longtime to D&D (let’s say I just finished my apprenticeship since I started digging through the monster that 3/3.5e can be in 2006).
    Second, there’s no real point to this rant except for maybe making some of you people around here feel all fuzzy and warm inside on how Greyhawk managed to reel in again someone who’s been “around the block” and now came back to where it all began.

    I started with a game called “Das Schwarze Auge” (DSA in short – I think the 4th Edition box was translated into English under the title “The Dark Eye”, but I doubt it ever found wide notice), which was and I assume still is Germany’s #1 Pen&Paper Roleplaying game. From what I figure, when it first came out in 1984, it was but a D&D 1st Edition clone (and not to be blamed for it; which fantasy game didn’t “borrow” from D&D in the early 80s?). By now, it has developed its kinda unique (though currently decaying, but let’s not go there) persona, also with its own pretty well developed world, that kinda falls somewhere inbetween Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms. While the basic rule seemed very reminiscient of D&D 1e though, the latter development of the system stressed roleplaying and interaction a lot more, and “game balance” was a lot in the eye of the beholder then.
    That’s the game however that kinda shaped me as both a player and a DM – maybe it’s important to know that I grew up on “Story and atmosphere supersedes rules and dice!”

    I had my first contact with D&D in the basic AD&D 2nd box, bought used for the price of a pack of chewing gum, translated by Amigo (including a handful of booklets, titled in a fashion that made it basically impossible to make sense of as a beginner, because after reading the “player’s handbook”, you knew how to create characters, but nothing else – combat and the rest was found in a booklet titled “Expanded Rules I”, and all DM-related content in a booklet named “Expanded Rules II”). At that point, AD&D with all its tables, (oh how I love thee, AD&D saving throws), numbers, dice, strongly regulated character progression, thin skill system and mostly, the likeliness of 1st level characters to bite the dust instantly if not careful, kinda came along as a joke. Yes, I know people will hate me for this statement, but consider I was a dumb kid back then who just had a glance over his own nose, and also, maybe some of the more story-game-loving among you may actually agree with me. I have changed my opinion since, but my point is, back then, I didn't take AD&D too seriously. It was more of an oddity to point at and say "Wow, people enjoyed that frustrating type of gameplay? Humankind is weird."

    Then came 3rd Edition, and now that was a force to be reckoned with – though I didn’t in the beginning, actually. I just picked it up out of curiosity because it was new, and people were talking about it. Like most people (at least around here), I was kinda awed by the lush and luxurious look of the Player’s Handbook, in full color, with those pretty (by now oh so ugly and old) “vignettes”, mostly kick-**** artwork (being an illustrator myself, Lockwood is still one of my heroes), et cetera. Also, finally the game offered a more complex skill system, only 3 saving throws (THE revolution!), and the multiclass-thing looked good to begin with (it was before anyone was thinking about any future issues there, and just appreciated the freedom of adding whatever class whenever you wanted, which felt like a big improvement over AD&D’s multi/dual class thingy).
    But, well, I still didn’t play D&D. I just treated it as something to look at, because, well, it is the grandfather of every pen-and-paper-rpg.

    It wasn’t before one of my now regular players (who was part of a not-so-serious – and at that time, not-so-mature – second group I ran) picked up the 3.5 book and appeared intrigued by it, and that kinda sold me later, because groups dissolve, and in the end I was left with only the not-so-serious, but very loyal group of players, who somehow didn’t really get into DSA. Thus began the reign of terror, I mean, 3.5e. It’s sort of a love/hate-relationship. 3E is a system that appears to be a lot of fun for many player’s, but can be a major headache for DMs. As someone who didn’t have much experience with D&D to boot with, I found myself overloaded with the rules in the 2 years until now in which I had to learn them – I think I can handle it now, but it sure was a long rocky road.
    Anyway, that is not the point – the point was my confusion about which setting to use. I started with a game that had a strongly established game world, and where rules and setting where deeply intertwined. (Having a little Shadowrun as a side dish now and then, where this also was the case, it kinda struck me as totally weird that the D&D core books didn’t really name a particular world.)

    Coming from AD&D, Bioware/Black Isle’s Baldur’s Gate series and stuff, I was kinda expecting to see the Forgotten Realms as a default setting – and was equally confused to find small size elves, different gods and such in the core books, where they were talking about “the D&D world”, and now and then the name “Graufalk” fell. In retrospective, I knew about Greyhawk before. I read a review of the 98’s Player’s Guide to Greyhawk (was it 98? I think it was) and therefore it rang a bell, but in Germany, there’s not much translated D&D-stuff, and what was there, mostly hailed from the TSR-Multi-Setting-Era (FR, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun…). Bottom line, I went and bought the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, because, well, it was the only D&D-Setting for purchase around here that I knew of (I kinda overlooked Eberron until a year later, but that was because the translation only showed up in late 2006, if I remember correctly).

    Now, the Forgotten Realms… seemed kinda nice in the beginning, and well, there are a lot of parts in the FRCS3 that make you go “Oh, I wanna have a campaign there”, but there are also the parts that make you raise a brow or two, and then there’s some stuff that somehow doesn’t feel like it actually belongs there. It took me a while to realize that the Realms were a huge patchwork, made out of dozens of authors’ contributions (some good, some okay, some plainly bad – granted, none of the “big” worlds out there is one-author-only, and maybe it’s the novels, but the Realms appear to feature the biggest lack in consistency I’ve met so far among setting flagships…), but it was also the point where I realized that I didn’t like the FR as a whole, and that they were just a temporary solution. Didn’t feel right.
    Side Note: Something I realized is that many American fantasy-roleplaying-products are, well, “American” to a certain degree. I cannot put my finger on it, but, in comparison, the Forgotten Realms somewhat lack a certain element that makes it feel “real” as a fictional (pseudo-)medieval era. It’s really hard to explain this feeling, but maybe it’s because as a European, you pretty much live right next door (or on top of) to what classic fantasy choses as its source material. Maybe that’s why you have the desire to get a certain level of “historical accuracy” and flavour. Probably it’s just the magic-this, magic-that in the FR, but Greyhawk on the other hand seems to has that certain element which placates my thirst for a particular degree of “historical realism”.- side note end
    So the search went on. Next, I picked up Eberron – which I like a lot despite it’s, hm, “artificial” aspects – but it turned out that most of the group wanted a real classic experience (cliché-ridden and all). Now, Eberron is not that bold and alternative, but too alternative and “modern” if you want the dusty old tomes, wizards with pointy hats, non-dino-riding Halflings and the like. I even tried writing a setting of my own over a year (which kinda failed due to overachievement and taking away too much valuable gaming time).

    And then, at long last, came the fateful day I thought of adding the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer to my collection, mostly because it was about 5 Euro on Amazon (used, naturally). Since I by now learned that Greyhawk was where it all began and that 3E’s “D&D world” was more or less based on the Greyhawk Setting, I thought “Oh well. Know thy roots, buy it”. The only regret about this purchase is that I didn’t make it 2 years sooner. Maybe it was because the LGG is rules-free. Maybe because it’s black-and-white, which further underlines the 80-90s feel (yes, there IS such a thing!). Or maybe because the content is just better and exactly what I was looking for.
    The LGG rekindled something I thought lost over the years. It was dusty, it was dirty, it was old, it was medieval. It had the wars, the political and religious struggles, the classic nonhuman races where you expected them to be, and not magic set on overdrive.
    Apparently the players loved the intro-writeup, the “oldschool” handdrawn map (of northern Keoland and the bordermarks) and that finally, the Player’s Handbook can be used to full extend (it is nice to see that player’s eyes still light up when they learn that certain spells, for example, are inventions of certain mighty mages that still walk the world, and – in theory at least - who’s hands you could shake if you become important enough yourself).
    Locating the campaign in Greyhawk now has, so to say, finally brought back everybody to the same page – and isn’t that a great thing? I think it is.

    Well, what can I say?
    Though it might sound a little overdramatic:
    After a long, rocky road - I think I’m home.


    * * *

    So, this concludes my rant about getting here. I just felt like sharing. Sorry for that MASSIVE heap of text. I dislike feeling like a total stranger in a new place. In case someone made it through that vastness of words, hopefully he/she found it to be somewhat entertaining and know at least knows where I'm coming from (and yes, I am very talkative).

    Now, for the part I could use some advice with.

    The campaign I’m currently shaping is set in northern Keoland, or rather, inbetween Keoland, Granmarch, Geoff and Sterich. Year’s 591, so the LGG is my main resource.
    I picked up PDFs of “Against the Giants” , “From the Ashes” and may other out-of-print GH resources and also scavenged some of the Oerth Journals for this and that.
    So, in addition, any other sources anyone would like to point out?

    My original point in placing the campaign there was to “carry over” the place where I started the campaign in my homebrew world before converting to Greyhawk (now that place fits nicely north of the Duchy of Ulek in the outskirts of the Lortmils), and to incorporate elements of “The Red Hand of Doom” (one of the few published adventures that has some potential in my eyes). By now, I’ve dropped a lot RHoD-material the more comfortable I feel in Greyhawk (I’m good at improvising plots and events as long as I know where I stand), just keeping some of the sites and encounters of the adventure as time savers. Furthermore, maybe the pressing urgency of the adventure ain’t so good for new players, who might want to go adventure here and there and do some “siteseeing”.

    So! That’s where you can help me, fellows. Besides invaded Geoff and boiling Sterich, any points of interest you think would make a good addition (or are a “must see”)? Sites/locations or personage of the Rushmoors, Hochoch, or the Dim Wood?
    So far, the group includes a female human druid, a dwarven cleric, a Halfling treasure hunter (rogue/sorcerer), a human ranger and a human bard – which is a very nice combination to boot with in my eyes. I suppose the Rushmoors, the Dim Wood and other wild/nature locations will be of much interest to the druid and the ranger (and maybe the bard, too). The dwarf’s on his path to find a lost loved one, who set out to find her forgotten clan somewhere in the western mountain ranges (maybe this is a plot for another time, this is more of a backdoor-plot for later, highlevel expeditions into far off territory, maybe the Underdark or the giant-populated mountain valleys), the halfling’s so far along the ride for treasure (simple, effective, adaptive). So far, the druid’s been the driving force behind the party, as she’s in search of her former tutor, a more powerful druid who set out to restore balance and give guidance in the Lost Lands.

    The hardest part of being new to a world is getting your order of priorities straight and looking where you can find what. Since it has just been several months, there’s still much for me to learn and grasp. Any hints and advice will be appreciated.[/i]


    Last edited by Remainaery on Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 563
    From: brazil

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    Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:47 am  

    hello Remainaery, be very welcome!
    im new here, and new to GH myself, so i cant help you that much.

    i have read all your post, it was very nice and good to know more about you

    maybe you should get the old GH box (the first one). also, in Canonfire theres a lot of awesome info.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


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    Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:17 am  

    One of us... one of us....

    Try Dungeon 117-119 (I think) has a short adventure path set in Sterich that contains some decent background and can act as a good lead in to Against the Giants.

    There is loads of useful flavour and information on the Living Geoff website and Yahoo group.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 25, 2008
    Posts: 6


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    Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:35 am  

    Thanks for the warm welcome and for the input already!

    @rossik: I do have a PDF copy of the original Greyhawk Box Set, though so far I figure much of the info (aside from a little nice detail, like the things about the trees of the Flanaess and such) is indeed also to be found in the LGG - except for the regions of course that saw major change (or found their end) during the Greyhawk Wars.

    @PaulN6: Dungeon 117-119, huh? Thanks, I'll look into that. Good you pointed that out, I tend to overlook Dragon/Dungeon Magazine as a ressource (I dunno why, magazines apparently are just too slippery for my brain to wrap around).
    I didn't spend too much time on the Living Geoff website yet (didn't they call it "Gyruff"?), but I will look into that soon. However, it somehow strikes me as "weird" - maybe because of the Gyruff-thing. I'll have to do some more research on that.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:28 am  

    Early issues of Dragon also continued the timeline of events presented in the 83' boxed set. There is a good amount of additional info on the Great Kingdom, the Wolf Nomads, the Horned Society, the Shield Lands, and the lands of Iuz in particular. All of these events lead up to what was done for the Greyhawk Wars, and which continues on in From the Ashes and in the LGG.

    Last edited by Cebrion on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:43 am  

    You should find the issues you need here. Do a search for "GREYHAWK Campaign Setting".
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