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    Canonfire :: View topic - My Google Oerth proof of concept
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    My Google Oerth proof of concept
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:48 am  
    My Google Oerth proof of concept

    I've been playing around with Google Earth, a freely downloadable virtual globe, map and geographic information browser.

    It's easy to add custom content to the app, and to explore its capabilities I've set it up to display maps and info from various eras ofthe World of Greyhawk.

    Screenshots of my results can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/nematodeGT/GoogleOerth02#

    It's clear that this is only scratching the surface of what Google Earth can do. My interest in this is to determine if it's possible and practical to use Google Earth as a browser based visual paradigm RPG campaign manager for my home game.

    So far, I'd say the answer is, definitely!!!!
    Adept Greytalker

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    Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:17 pm  
    Wow!

    That's awesome. It looks like you can set up different maps to see which ones work out the best. Does your experiment take into account that Oerth is slightly larger than Earth?
    Adept Greytalker

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    Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:19 pm  
    Does it matter...

    Maybe it doesn't matter if you're not using miles if you figured out a way to do everything with latitude and longetude...?
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:11 am  
    I think I figured something out with the Dragon map...

    Can you put this edited "Dragon" map in your Google Earth and show us what it looks like?

    http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/61/l_e075d461675b48cdbe81459c0bd5388a.gif

    I cropped, cut sections out to line up where the latitudes are according to page 18 of the Glossography. Then I used those distances to figure out how to go north 30 more degrees and then that 90 degrees to go south from the equator 90 degrees. Then I squished it to make it square and stretched it to make it 2:1. It should be able to pop into your Google Earth program and allow you to line up the latitudes assuming that there is no extra unmapped space west of the left side of the map and/or east of the right side of the map.

    I figure if any one wants to add Aquaria, then they have to take the descriptions and add it centered between the oceans. If I'm not mistaken, the OJ recommends having Aquaria sink before the City of Greyhawk is established anyway.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:20 am  
    The Freecity of Greyhawk

    Which product did the Freecity of Greyhawk map come from?
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

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    Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:09 am  
    Re: New Empyrea

    Raymond wrote:
    I figure if any one wants to add Aquaria, then they have to take the descriptions and add it centered between the oceans. If I'm not mistaken, the OJ recommends having Aquaria sink before the City of Greyhawk is established anyway.


    Aquaria is 5000 miles east of the Gull Cliffs, according to Doc's Island, which would make it pretty impossible to place it within the Solnor (which is only about 3000 miles across, according to the Living Greyhawk Journal). I'd assume Doc's Island was mistaken about the width of the ocean and place it in the vicinity of the Empire of Lynn. Since the Dragon Annual #1 article "Beyond the Flanaess" wrote that the city of Lynn was "perhaps settled by seafarers from the Flanaess," it seems likely this was a nod to the history of Aquaria as described in Doc's Island.

    The "present day" of the R-series of modules was 551 CY (565 in the local John's Rule calendar), so the land obviously didn't sink before the City of Greyhawk was founded.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:14 am  

    Raymond wrote:
    That's awesome. It looks like you can set up different maps to see which ones work out the best. Does your experiment take into account that Oerth is slightly larger than Earth?


    I'm unaware of a way to change the size of Google Earth's "default globe". But really, considering levels of imprecision involved in layering non-Mercator casual maps onto the globe, I'm not worried about a difference in size of planets. The major issues I've encountered are more along the lines of getting one author's map of a part of Oerth to line up with another author's map of a part of Oerth. If it gets pretty close, it's a success.

    If someone wants to work with a different sized planet, there's Celestia, and if I were gaming in a sci-fi setting like Traveller, that's the route I might take. However, Google Earth has a nice toolset to annnotate surface data with placemarks and XML support, and I want to take advantage of that.

    Raymond wrote:
    Maybe it doesn't matter if you're not using miles if you figured out a way to do everything with latitude and longetude...?


    I followed Gary Holian's advice in an early issue of Oerth Journal in which he suggested centering the Darlene map at the city of Greyhawk along 35 degrees north (if I remember correctly) so as to minimize the errors inherent in applying a non-Mercator map to a globe. Things get wierd the further you go from that latitude, and that's unavoidable with existing maps.

    So that's basically the approach: City of Greyhawk is at 35 degrees north, and then I applied other maps to align with that placement. It's proved to be more horseshoes than brain surgery.

    Raymond wrote:
    I think I figured something out with the Dragon map...
    Can you put this edited "Dragon" map in your Google Earth and show us what it looks like?

    http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/61/l_e075d461675b48cdbe81459c0bd5388a.gif

    I cropped, cut sections out to line up where the latitudes are according to page 18 of the Glossography. Then I used those distances to figure out how to go north 30 more degrees and then that 90 degrees to go south from the equator 90 degrees. Then I squished it to make it square and stretched it to make it 2:1. It should be able to pop into your Google Earth program and allow you to line up the latitudes assuming that there is no extra unmapped space west of the left side of the map and/or east of the right side of the map.

    I figure if any one wants to add Aquaria, then they have to take the descriptions and add it centered between the oceans. If I'm not mistaken, the OJ recommends having Aquaria sink before the City of Greyhawk is established anyway.


    Sure, you can find the screen shot at http://picasaweb.google.com/nematodeGT/GoogleOerth02#5292337464272831842

    Raymond wrote:
    Which product did the Freecity of Greyhawk map come from?


    I don't know what product it was created for, but I first noticed it in 2007's Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk. Map is at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/CastleGreyhawk_Maps/107031.jpg

    - nematode
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:35 am  

    Some really cool maps there, anyway. I particularly like seeing how Hepmonaland, Nippon, Dragons Island, and so on line up with the size of the globe.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:00 pm  
    Other Side?

    Can I bug you again to see the other side? I'm curious to see how east and west match up.

    I was thinking about using this as the DM map but now I'm thinking it would be good to use this to see how it as a player's map compares with the color map you stuffed into Google Earth.

    Old maps of Earth are interesting to compare against modern maps.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:33 am  

    Great work!

    When you can incorporate the maps of our beloved Anna in this application it would be stunning!
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:27 am  
    Re: Other Side?

    Raymond wrote:
    Can I bug you again to see the other side? I'm curious to see how east and west match up.

    I was thinking about using this as the DM map but now I'm thinking it would be good to use this to see how it as a player's map compares with the color map you stuffed into Google Earth.

    Old maps of Earth are interesting to compare against modern maps.


    For sure! Smile

    Here's the other hemisphere of your map.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/nematodeGT/GoogleOerth02#5293086740626856514

    -nematode
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    Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:16 pm  

    Sander_Kaa wrote:
    Great work!

    When you can incorporate the maps of our beloved Anna in this application it would be stunning!


    Thank you!

    Anna's maps are going to take some work to get them ready to use in Google Earth. I can't use her megamap, because it's so big it kills my computer. I'll have to apply the map sections individually, and she's created something like 15 to 20 of them.

    Her maps' red borders need to be trimmed, so that adjoining sections will line up neatly. And, do I want to use all layers within her maps as-is...which would greatly simplify the task...or do I want to omit the Living Greyhawk-specific material within them, which is my preference.

    Anyway, here's what I've been messing with today. It takes advantage of the transparency feature within Google Earth to show the interior of the Green Dragon Inn superimposed over its location on Cargo Street from WotC's City of Greyhawk map.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/nematodeGT/GoogleOerth02#5293092532970287362

    -nematode
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    Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:13 am  
    Interpertations

    I couldn't figure out why I couldn't see that island/continent next to Polaria or Polaria. I figured it out. When I said where east and west meet, you thought I meant in the middle of the map and I meant where the map edges meet. That's funny.

    What is interesting about the second image of the Dragon map in Google Earth is that the land mass is so large that it's like looking at the Pacific Ocean--it seems to take up almost the whole picture.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    From: Second Primordial Ooze on the Left

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    Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:59 pm  

    nematode wrote:
    Raymond wrote:
    Which product did the Freecity of Greyhawk map come from?


    I don't know what product it was created for, but I first noticed it in 2007's Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk.


    That map is indeed from Expedition to Greyhawk Ruins. It was "created" for that product by tracing - literally - over the map I created for the Living Greyhawk Journal #2 poster map. Traced right down to every last bush and fencepost. Without any credit whatsoever, I may add.

    A low res version of my original map can be seen on my website on the City of Greyhawk page.

    Denis, aka "Maldin"
    Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
    Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... maps, magic, mysteries, mechanics, and more!
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    Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:13 am  

    Maldin I'm glad you brought up the subject of giving credit.

    I'm thinking about adding your NPC information for the city of Greyhawk to a set of placemarks that can be popup clicked when you mouse over a map of the city. If I use that info, how would you like to be credited for your work?

    On the use of the WotC version of your map, since the app allows zooming way in, I needed to find a hi-res image, so I went with what was available. I'd prefer it, and I think the community would too - to use your city map as the basis for a map data project, if a hi-res version of it was available.

    nematode
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