I'm expounding on the various barbarian cultures in the Flanaess for my 1E game. While perusing the random encounter tables in the '83 Glossography, I noted the appearance of "Men, Tribesmen" in a number of lands that I wouldn't have envisioned supporting such primitives. I've listed the relevant entries below, excluding references to what Gygax termed the more "civilized" hillmen, marshmen, and mountaineers, and excluding entries where the tribesmen are obviously (to me) from an adjacent area:
Barrier Peaks (Yorodhi?)
Burneal Forest (Uirtag: short-statured, blue-painted Flan aborigines with poison-tipped spears)
Crystalmist Mountains
Dry Steppes (Yorodhi?)
Fellreev Forest (tribesmen as distinct from nomads)
Forlorn Forest
Hraak Forest (primitive Coltens?)
Iuz
Jotens
Ket
Principality of Ulek
Scarlet Brotherhood (probably barbaric Suel tribes)
Sepia Uplands (tribesmen as distinct from nomads)
Spindrift Isles
Stonehold (primitive Coltens?)
Sulhaut Mountains
Tusman Hills (tribesmen as distinct from nomads)
Ull (Yorodhi: refugee Oeridian hillmen)
Ullsprue Mountains (Yorodhi?)
Valley of the Mage (tree people)
Yecha Hills (tribesmen as distinct from nomads)
Would anyone care to help me develop these references (or point me to extant material about them)?
Last edited by DMPrata on Sun May 23, 2010 4:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
Interesting project. I wonder want MM 1e says about culture to give you options. Are they necessarily huntergatherers? _________________ Plar of Poofy Pants
Tribesman: Primitive tribesmen are typically found in tropical jungles or on islands. They use large shields. Their leaders conform to those of cavemen, but they have the following additional figures:
1—4th level cleric for every 10 tribesmen
1—6th level cleric for every 30 tribesmen
1—8th level head cleric (witchdoctor)
Tribesman clerics will be druidical in nature.
These men dwell in villages of grass, bamboo or mud huts. There is a 50% chance that the village lair will be protected by a log palisade. The village will contain females and young equal to 100% of the males encountered. There is a 75% chance that there will be 20–50 slaves. There is a 50% chance that there will be 2–12 captives (food!) held in a pen. Their treasure is exactly that of cavemen, but the tribesmen can possess all three types.
Tribesmen are armed as follows:
shield, spear & club 30%
shield & 2 spears 40%
shortbow & club 30%
Treat tribesmen's clubs as maces.
Gary Gygax, in Glossography for the Guide to the World of Greyhawk™ Setting, p. 7, wrote:
Men, Tribesmen: As described in MONSTER MANUAL, tribesmen are quite primitive, but this is not always the case in the Flanaess. Some hillmen, marshmen, and mountaineer tribesmen are quite civilized. This is especially true in cases where they are refugees from an adjacent, civilized area. Tribesmen of the very primitive sort will have shamans and witch doctors as shown, but the civilized sort will have clerics or druids and possibly illusionists with them.
In the encounter tables themselves, he goes on to call out where tribesmen are properly civilized hillmen, marshmen, etc., leaving my above list of "generic" primitive tribesmen to be fleshed out.
Is there a distinction between tribesmen and barbarians?
The barbarians as described in UA seem considerably more advanced - having metal weapons, etc. _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
Interesting topic. I don't know if the LGG is within your parameters, DMPrata, but in all my Ull writings, the said tribesmen would be the Oeridian 'Yorodhi' hillmen who were displaced by the Baklunish nomads who rule it today. They hold out in the hills bordering Ull and the Dry Steppes. Think of them as a refugee tribe that didn't migrate back in the day with the Aerdi and so on.
Of course, it is also possible that some of these tribesmen could be completely civilized. Consider, for example, the "tribesmen" of the Middle East such as those who rule Saudi Arabia, or our own Native Americans. I've often thought the Flanaess could use a little more cultural diversity, and I see no reason why that must necessarily include more primitive cultures. Why not civilized cultures that have been assimilated? Tycheron, for example, was quite civilized as far as I can recall, and there's nothing in canon that says what happened to its people. Could they not have been assimilated as the Great Kingdom swept westward while still maintaining a certain degree of cultural identity (such as tribal distinctions)? Culture and race need not be synonymous, and some "tribal" cultures could be little more than variations on the standard races and cultures (Oeridian tribesmen, Baklunish tribesmen, Aerdian tribesmen, etc.).
Also, it's been a looooong time since I read them, but I also seem to recall that in the Gord novels the protagonist runs into some tribesmen at one point that didn't at all seem barbaric to me. As I recall, the only "barbaric" thing about them was that they wore leather armor and used spears. But don't quote me on this one, since my memory's not known for its accuracy.
Keep in mind that the 1E Monster Manual predates the appearance of the Barbarian class in Dragon Magazine by 5 years. EGG went on to represent some quite formidable groups of Tribesmen as Barbarians in Isle of the Ape. You might use both stat types to represent more peaceful hunter/gatherer Tribesmen vs. outright warlike Barbarians. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
"Mika! Flannae! Aborigines! The spears and [thorn-tipped] clubs are tipped with poison..."
The Price of Power, p. 140 wrote:
The men were small, no more than four feet tall. They were all but naked, wearing only the merest of fur loincloths and nothing else but a thick layer of blue paint from head to toe. Their hair was thick, wiry, and daubed with the paint as well, then twisted into a myriad of snaky locks that hung down to their shoulders, forming a wild and barbaric headdress. Their brows were thick and straight, nearly meeting over the bridge of the nose, which was short and flat and wide of nostril. Their eyes, which were unfortunately still open, were a surprisingly soft shade of blue. Their teeth had been filed to sharp points.
The two blue men at Mika's feet still gripped their spears; one had strung his bow and appeared to have been ready to loose the arrow when the fumes struck him down. Their weapons were made of sablewood and were beautifully crafted.
The dead men were wiry, and their musculature was well-defined. On their chests, biceps, and thighs were rows of geometric cuts that had been limned with a darker shade of blue. The men appeared to be in excellent physical condition, albeit rather thin and dead.
"Flannae, you say?" asked Mika.
"Aye," said Hornsbuck. "Aborigines. Savages. Some say they were the very first to settle the Burneal Forest. You seldom see them any more and never in great numbers."
There are a few problems with this description.
1. It's a Rose Estes novel.
2. They have blue eyes (maybe they have Suel blood?).
3. They're pygmies for some reason. I'd rather they weren't, though it's not a deal-breaker. The combination of being blue and short makes them only one step away from being xvarts.
Other than that, though, it's a fairly interesting description, and I think a decent basis for the Uirtag.
Is there a distinction between tribesmen and barbarians?
The barbarians as described in UA seem considerably more advanced - having metal weapons, etc.
Cebrion wrote:
Keep in mind that the 1E Monster Manual predates the appearance of the Barbarian class in Dragon Magazine by 5 years.
Tribesmen were retrofitted into the barbarian class:
Gary Gygax, in Unearthed Arcana, p. 20, wrote:
Cavemen, dervishes, nomads, and tribesmen (see Monster Manual, “Men”) are now considered barbarians.
bubbagump wrote:
Of course, it is also possible that some of these tribesmen could be completely civilized.
No, Gary already segregated the "civilized" tribesmen in his encounter tables. What's left in my list above are the primitive types.
mortellan wrote:
Interesting topic. I don't know if the LGG is within your parameters, DMPrata, but in all my Ull writings, the said tribesmen would be the Oeridian 'Yorodhi' hillmen who were displaced by the Baklunish nomads who rule it today. They hold out in the hills bordering Ull and the Dry Steppes. Think of them as a refugee tribe that didn't migrate back in the day with the Aerdi and so on.
Yep, that's definitely a germaine reference. I'll update my list above.
rasgon, thanks for the Rose Estes quotes. (There's something you don't hear every day....) I'll probably make them a little taller (~5') so they aren't quite as xvart-like.
"Mika! Flannae! Aborigines! The spears and [thorn-tipped] clubs are tipped with poison..."
The Price of Power, p. 140 wrote:
The men were small, no more than four feet tall. They were all but naked, wearing only the merest of fur loincloths and nothing else but a thick layer of blue paint from head to toe. Their hair was thick, wiry, and daubed with the paint as well, then twisted into a myriad of snaky locks that hung down to their shoulders, forming a wild and barbaric headdress. Their brows were thick and straight, nearly meeting over the bridge of the nose, which was short and flat and wide of nostril. Their eyes, which were unfortunately still open, were a surprisingly soft shade of blue. Their teeth had been filed to sharp points.
The two blue men at Mika's feet still gripped their spears; one had strung his bow and appeared to have been ready to loose the arrow when the fumes struck him down. Their weapons were made of sablewood and were beautifully crafted.
The dead men were wiry, and their musculature was well-defined. On their chests, biceps, and thighs were rows of geometric cuts that had been limned with a darker shade of blue. The men appeared to be in excellent physical condition, albeit rather thin and dead.
"Flannae, you say?" asked Mika.
"Aye," said Hornsbuck. "Aborigines. Savages. Some say they were the very first to settle the Burneal Forest. You seldom see them any more and never in great numbers."
There are a few problems with this description.
1. It's a Rose Estes novel.
2. They have blue eyes (maybe they have Suel blood?).
3. They're pygmies for some reason. I'd rather they weren't, though it's not a deal-breaker. The combination of being blue and short makes them only one step away from being xvarts.
Other than that, though, it's a fairly interesting description, and I think a decent basis for the Uirtag.
Maybe their height and blue eyes could be accounted for by them not being pure Flan, but mixed with another human subrace that is extinct except in what blood and cultural traits survive among the Uirtag?
This article by Erik Mona mentions the Rujari, a race of "proto-humans" who I assumed were supposed to be essentially Neanderthals. Neanderthals appeared in basic D&D and in 3rd edition's Frostburn, but their role in the World of Greyhawk has always been nebulous. I'd be tempted to use them for the Crystalmist tribesmen.
On page 7 of th Oerth Journal #5 in an article by F. Weining we can find:
"The other race of human in Blackmoor is a group of primitives found in the region of the Black Ice. [...] Wearing only skins, they dwell in rude tents or caverns at the edge of the Ice. They make no use of fire, or of metal, and greatly fear those who bear them.[...]"
In such a hazardous enviroment as the Land of the Black Ice, with weapons made of wood, stone and bone and, with no use of fire for heating or cooking, this people must be a tough one.
I guess they perhaps camp near thermal waters or inhabit caverns naturally heated by underground rivers of magma. That's how they keep warm aside from the thick furs (mamooth, bears, etc. ) they dress. As for they diet they consume the meat raw after hunting and dry the rest.
Saludos!
Gabriel _________________ Discord: @GrillWizard
This article by Erik Mona mentions the Rujari, a race of "proto-humans" who I assumed were supposed to be essentially Neanderthals. Neanderthals appeared in basic D&D and in 3rd edition's Frostburn, but their role in the World of Greyhawk has always been nebulous. I'd be tempted to use them for the Crystalmist tribesmen.
We already have "cavemen" in the 1E encounter tables. Are you suggesting a separate Neanderthal race?
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