I just got finished watching a 3 part series with Terry Jones on ancient inventions. While I knew about papyrus, I didn't know that the precursor to modern day parchment came from sheep, where it's name evolved from. Also, Greek Fire was almost called Syrian Fire, as it was developed and created by a Syrian inventor/arms dealer, but the idea was peddled to the ancient Greeks who decided it was a great idea and turned the tide in a battle that killed over 30,000 Syrians.
In your campaign, either canon examples or homebrew, what inventions do you use? I'm thinking of things like the printing press, mail system/pony express, etc. _________________ For the last time... I'm not a vampire! I was bleached a bewitching shade of white by The Gem of Souls!
Mostly I limit my campaign to a few war machines and non-magical dwarven/gnomish mine elevators, etc.
3.5 had a whole heap of non-magical mundania that adventurers could equip themselves with. That was about as far as I was willing to go. When I began playing in a Pathfinder campaign recently, I loaded my character up with an Everburning Torch, Glow Rods, Thunder Stones, and a dozen other pieces of non-magical backpack-filling trype. My character is 5th level now and I've never tried to use a Thunder Stone.
Besides some larger cities having aqueducts, or bath houses. Repeating crossbows or quick loading crossbows mage armors. Yes some non-magical gear is ok but thunderstones, sunrods, and everburning torches are magical to me I am not a fan of these items that is what torches and lanterns are for.
huumm
from the more common items.
Buttons, writing (in most places anyway) printing press, carrier pigeons.
Less common, but exists,
Spurs & sturups, ( to control mount without hands), Wind and Water Mills
Unique (to Greyhawk )
The roadway system in the GK
My own Campaign
I extended Whyestil Lake to drain thru Crockport as a river south to Lake Ersin ( which I made a Reservoir) that started a levy system to Chendl and then emptied into the Crystal River. This made for better commerce and defendability as I had Crockport under siege during the war.
And as Argon stated I would concider sunrods, everburning torches, etc as minor magical items too. Beware the BANE of the lamplighters guild.
hehe
I tend to limit the items available to the cannon items.
In home brew I am a little more relaxed. The printing press is a good addition to a D&D game. That explains the massive libraries that seem a classic in D&D worlds.
A friend of mine created a character class called the Technician. Basically the class created the effects of magical spells by using specialized equipment cases filled with parts. Basically the character could build a number of inventions out of his equipment case then use the equipment to create affects similar to spells. Each Technician had a design book. Basically the same thing as a spell book that held all the blueprints of the items he could build. The Technician also had an equipment case that had a level showing the number and quality of items that could be built one time. Similar to the spells per day of a typical caster. Technicians could rolls a knowledge (engineering) to learn new inventions from another Technician’s design book, like a wizard learning a spell from a spell book. All equipment needed reset, repairs, or reloads, after so many uses, also like spells per day, explaining why a piece of equipment could not be used over and over every round. So your book contained all the items you knew how to build, your case limited you to having only so many inventions available at one time, and you could only use your items so many times in combat. There was a master invention list, a spell list, all based on spells of the same level from the Player’s Handbook. The class had a special ability to create a single use invention to accomplish a single task based on a skill check. It was called the Macgyver ability. Inventions like “spring boots” were the equivalent of the spell “Jump” or “Wall Gloves” for the spell “Spider Climb.”
I have played in some campaigns that had gun powder. Guns are hard to balance. The ones I’ve played in Guns were useless.
Once upon a time I settled on allowing anything from the real world up to the year 1500 A.D. (I prohibit firearms as a special limitation).
In some ways, its not a bad point in time. Armor was still designed to protect against muscle-powered weapons (latter it would get thicker in response to firearms). The weapons available would include everything in the books. Day-to-day living would be a bit more sophisticated than the Dark Ages, but not too much. Just about everyone would still be a farmer, beholden to weather and nature to make it through the year. A real world king would be similar to the early reign of Henry VIII of England. Such a king's diplomacy could include a grand knightly tournament (Field of the Cloth of Gold, 1520), notions of chivalry still would be in play (in word if not deed), mundane ships could just barely travel around the globe, and the king would decree that all his subjects practice with their longbows on Sunday.
Yet by the end of Henry's reign the Venetian ambassador to his court noted that he had enough cannon to blow open the gates of Hell, and his subjects could practice on Sundays with their early firearms, instead of with the longbow. So a DM has to draw lines.
One objection I have to a piece of technology in the rules is the spyglass, because it represents a very slippery slope. Optical lenses have been around since ancient times. The telescope on the other hand is a combination of such lenses and was patented in Holland in 1608 (able to enlarge the image about 3 times). By the next summer, Galileo had pushed telescopes to 8 power. (And ushered in significant notions of "modern" thought - that the world is not the center of the universe, that the sun was imperfect with sunspots, etc.). There is no real reason why the spyglass in the player's handbook (at 2 power) would be the limit of optical performance. Another reason for my limitation of optics, is that with them, the optical telegraphs of the 19th century should be fairly common (the Selintan River signal line described in From the Ashes leverages additional magic in my campaign).
Another limitation I have introduced is on the design of watercraft. I don't want mundane travel across the oceans to be a routine or scheduled service. The ancient Romans certainly took control of the Mediterranean and in some ways became dependent upon regular naval commerce. The annual grain fleet from Egypt was a real necessity to feed the metropolis of Rome, and large bulk carriers were developed for this traffic. That said, I still don't want anything as routine as the Spanish voyages between Mexico and the Phillippines that started in 1565.
Also, I want mundane naval warfare to be based on the oar and ram, not on sail and a broadside of cannon. Therefore I look to the technology of the Battle of Lepanto (1571), considered by some to be the last major naval battle under oar power. The next major naval battle was the Spanish Armada, where cannon power decided matters in favor of the English (1588).
That said, I have made the skill checks necessary to produce a genuine "Full-rigged ship" rather steep, and therefore typically unavailable. A truly inspired ship architect might produce a "special" vessel that sails as well as an early galleon. But caravels (Columbus' Nina and Pinta) and carracks (Santa Maria) will be the mainstay. Hull size for wooden vessels maxes out at a little more than 300 feet. This was true both in the ancient world and latter in the 19th century when the British Royal Navy had to decommission a pair of 335' wooden ships because they were structurally unsound.
In terms of architecture, castles still need to be the rule, not the angled bastions of fortresses designed with cannon in mind. (Getting rid of firearms entirely is a good thing to me). Size of buildings might matter to some. The largest castle tower of the middle ages was the donjon of the Chateau de Coucy. It was 180 feet tall, and 114 feet around or so (Germans blew it up in WWI). Even taller stone structures of the middle ages were the cathedral spires. The spire of Lincoln Cathedral rose to 524 feet before it collapsed a couple hundred years after being built.
All technology that exists will lead to other technology. The differences between a caravel and a galleon are just about as slight as between a galleon and a full-rigged ship. The differences between a spyglass that magnifies its subject 3 times and one that magnifies it 8 times is one year of development. It is the DM who must figure out why no-one has bothered to go further. My solution has typically been that magic ends up being the cheaper option. Want to sail closer the wind; enchant the sails. Want a weapon to punch through armor; enchant the weapon. Want to feed a metropolis; make a magic cornucopia rather than a globe-sailing grain fleet.
My solution has typically been that magic ends up being the cheaper option. Want to sail closer the wind; enchant the sails. Want a weapon to punch through armor; enchant the weapon. Want to feed a metropolis; make a magic cornucopia rather than a globe-sailing grain fleet.
This has always been my explanation. It's conceivable that technology slows evolution, so why can't magic slow technology? Who's going to spend thousands on a x8 spyglass when there are familiars to send, crystal balls to scry, and clairvoyance to cast at 50gp/level of the caster? There are also plenty of powerful groups in GH that would be opposed to commoners making any great leaps in technology.
My solution has typically been that magic ends up being the cheaper option. Want to sail closer the wind; enchant the sails. Want a weapon to punch through armor; enchant the weapon. Want to feed a metropolis; make a magic cornucopia rather than a globe-sailing grain fleet.
Ditto
I generally forbid the printing press (the political implications are frighteneing), as that inevitably leads to mass literacy. Personally, I like having illiterate characters ask the party wizard or priest to read things to them.
I think A-Baneful-Backfire also mentioned the fact that one small invention can easily lead to another. I like to keep the pace of innovation low because of the relative availability of magic and the high opportunity cost of researching a slightly better waterwheel.
I do not allow most Rennaissance equipment (ships being the exception as per Carl Sergeant), and I have set plate mail as the most advanced armor available. Generally, I like Greyhawk to be a 12th to early 13th century setting.
No printing press in my campaign. The main way things get printed in large amounts "quickly" is by woodcut. There are cleric-scribes among some faiths who use the stoneshape spell to create something similar to a woodcut, which is then brushed with ink and stamped on parchment/vellum. PCs will see simple tracts/announcements printed in either way, but that is the extent of printing. Other that that, everything is done the old-fashioned way- written by hand.
There is a good amount of clever water wheel tech for armories(grinding stones and cam-driven hammers), irrigation, and for mills of course. The study of clockwork mechanisms is also present, but it is usually simple, rare, and is often paired with magic. Most sizable dwarven holds and powerful nations have mastered the art of casting large hollow containers/statues of iron, bronze, brass, and softer metals, although this is not something that is done very often(dwarves prefer to work metal, not pour it), and, no, they are NOT casting cannon! There are no massive foundries cranking out steel girders or anything like that. Smelting ore is still a somewhat simple and expensive to set up operation. Unsurprisingly, dwarves lead the way in metallurgy and metal production. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
At the "time" that Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table were supposed to exist, the best Armour on earth was . . . Chain Mail. (But then, who among us ever expect those clods in Hollywood to get it right?)
The Plate Armour that we associate with Knights (even the Knights of Greyhawk) did not come along for several centuries after that time period. Plate Armour first appeared in the 13th century, but did not reach it's peak until the 15th and 16th centuries.
King Arthur supposedly ruled during the late 5th and early 6th centuries. No Plate Armour.
I've said before that I like playing my Greyhawk "further back in time" than most.
FYI: "Scale Armour" was used first. The invention of "Mail Armour" is credited to the Celts, about 300 B.C.E. The term "Chain Mail" is most commonly credited to Sir Walter Scott -- author of Ivanhoe -- in the late 18th, or early 19th century.
So Plate Armour is a non-magical, low-tech invention that I allow in my game.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
There are no massive foundries cranking out steel girders or anything like that. Smelting ore is still a somewhat simple and expensive to set up operation. Unsurprisingly, dwarves lead the way in metallurgy and metal production.
