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    Canonfire :: View topic - Oriental Dragons
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Oriental Dragons
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Posts: 85
    From: Staug, FL, USA

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    Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:07 pm  
    Oriental Dragons

    They've been with us since the 1e Fiend Folio, increased in number with 1e's Oriental Adventures and have since been with us through many editions of the game. Have any of you used these critters in Greyhawk campaigns. If so, did you cordon them off to areas outside the Flanaess, or did you incorporate into regular adventures?

    As an added bonus... The oriental dragons and other Chinese-inspired creatures in D&D all seem to use the (now) obsolete Wade-Giles romanization method rather than the much more frequently used Pinyin method. While compiling the stats for dragons into a single document for ease of reference, I decided to convert the names into the Pinyin romaniztion. For some this was easy. For certain ones (Tun Mi Lung & Li Long), this was a nightmare. :)

    Wade-Giles Name = Pinyin Name (Rough Meaning)
    Chiang Lung = Jiāng Lóng (river dragon)
    Li Lung = Lí Lóng (black dragon)*
    Lung Wang = Lóng Wáng (dragon king)
    Pan Lung = Pán Lóng (coiled dragon)
    Shen Lung = Shén Lóng (spirit dragon)
    T'ien Lung = Tiān Lóng (celestial dragon)
    Tun Mi Lung = Duàn Wěi Long (bobtail-dragon)
    Yu Lung = Yòu Lóng (young dragon)*

    * I'm not certain about which character is used for "li" in Li Long, but this was my best guess given the almost non-existent info. I'm not 100% sure about Yòu Lóng, but it fits.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:19 am  

    The Dragons of Oerth list - http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7 shows the appearances of 3 oriental dragons, all pan lung, in I1: Dwellers of the Forbidden City, U2: Danger at Dunwater, and I7: Baltron's Beacon.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

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    Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:59 pm  

    The 2nd edition Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendium (MC3) translated the various dragon names this way:

    Chiang lung = river dragon
    Li lung = earth dragon
    Lung wang = sea dragon
    Pan lung = coiled dragon
    Shen lung = spirit dragon
    T'ien lung = celestial dragon
    Tun mi lung = typhoon dragon
    Yu lung = carp dragon

    Going by Wikipedia's article on Chinese dragons, the Pinyin equivalents should be:

    Chiang lung = Possibly the yìnglóng (responding dragon)
    Li lung = dìlóng (earth dragon)
    Lung wang = lóngwáng (dragon king)
    Pan lung = pánlóng (coiled dragon)
    Shen lung = shénlóng (god dragon)
    T'ien lung = tiānlóng (heavenly dragon)
    Tun mi lung = dǎfēnglóng or táifēnglóng (typhoon dragon) (I looked up the Pinyin word for "typhoon," since I couldn't find anything on the Wikipedia list)
    Yu lung = liyulóng (again, I looked up the Pinyin word for carp)

    A t'ien lung dragon is encounted in Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, in the Great Spiral Stair.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Posts: 85
    From: Staug, FL, USA

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    Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:57 am  

    Thanks guys, I never thought to look in the published adventures. It's interesting that (until EttRoG) that the pan lung was the only one that made into print.

    Rasgon, the wikipedia page was one of the sources I consulted, too. Unfortunately, the parenthetical titles give to the dragons in MC3, FF and OA aren't always translations of the name--the lung wang and tun mi lung are prime examples of that. The tun mi lung, for instance, is associated with typhoons, but the Chinese characters (as given in Nicholas Belfield Dennys' 1876 The Folk-Lore of China) that make up its name translate as "bobtail dragon. From the actual Chinese characters (斷尾龍) it was easy to find the Pinyin romanization (duàn wěi long).

    Unfortunately, I couldn't find similar sources for the chiang lung, li lung and yu lung and cheated by using a W-G to Pinyin conversion table and tried to discern the proper character from there. "Chiang" converts to "jiang", and "jiāng" (江) is the character for "river". That one fell into place.

    Yu lung was next. "Yu" converts to "you" in Pinyin, however there's no "you" character that means "carp", but there is one "yòu" (幼) that means "young"--and that's fitting, but it's little more than a guess. Li lung was utter hell... "Li" converts to "li" in Pinyin and there are tons of "li" characters and none of them mean "earth"--there's one that means "gravel/small stone", but that doesn't really fit. It was around this time that I decided to give up (I had started this a fun diversion from other projects, but after several hours it turned into something more akin to work ;) ). So when I saw "驪龍" on a website (but with nothing to back it up), and just rolled with it (until I find a better solution). The li lung's description sounds like it could be based on the fú cáng lóng, but "fú cáng" is a far cry from "li". I wish I knew what book or books the original creator was using as reference. Maybe I'll resume my search later--when it's not taking me from other projects. :D
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 924
    From: Computer Desk

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    Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:27 pm  

    My paltry translation skills hold no great weight but perhaps these translations would suffice:

    Wade-Giles Name = Pinyin Name (Rough Meaning)
    Li Lung = Lí Lóng (black dragon)*
    Tun Mi Lung = Duàn Wěi Long (bobtail-dragon)
    IMHO; a misprint, Lung Wang = Lóng Wáng (dragon king), its definition and text indicates the oriental sea dragon therefore the entry should be named - Hai Lung = Hai Long (sea dragon)

    Suggestions
    Shan Lung = Shan Long (mountain dragon)
    Tai Feng Lung = Tai Feng Long (typhoon dragon)
    Hai Lung = Hai Long (sea dragon)

    Just a thought...
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 630
    From: on the way to Bellport

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    Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:55 pm  

    As to the first part of the original question, I liked how The Scarlet Brotherhood put a few mist dragons in the Vohoun Ocean, and it made me think generally that "oriental" dragons might have a place in the former Olman Empire and the Touv people of Hepmonaland.

    The new Pathfinder Jade Regent Adventure Path module, Forest of Spirits, has some nice rules for kami that also might be helpful for distinguishing these parts of Oerik beyond the Flanaess.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Posts: 85
    From: Staug, FL, USA

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    Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:26 am  

    Very interesting, I'll have to check that out.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 924
    From: Computer Desk

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    Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:55 am  

    For the celstial imperium; I used the "cheat" of cultural interpretation to explain the various draconic translations and therefore the misinterpretation for those areas that have little contact with oriental dragons.
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