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    Canonfire :: View topic - Ghost vs Spells
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Ghost vs Spells
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat May 12, 2012 9:41 am  
    Ghost vs Spells

    I was going to add this to my previous posting (perhaps I should retitle it "Ghost Post"), but have a separate inquiry/interpretation that I need clarified.

    Under the description, it mentions that only spells cast by an Ethereal caster will affect a Ghost. Does that only include if the Ghost itself is immaterial, or also if the Ghost become semi-material (when even magical weapons can affect it, albeit at AC 0)? It seems to me that if magical weapons could harm a semi-material Ghost, then magical spells should be able to harm it, as well.

    Thoughts?

    -Lanthorn
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
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    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Sun May 13, 2012 4:41 am  

    Both the 1E & 2E descriptions seem pretty clear to me: Ghosts are immune to all spells cast on the Prime.
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun May 13, 2012 8:05 am  

    DMPrata, thanks for your reply. I find it bizarre that spells cannot affect even a semi-materialized ghost, but even minor magical weapons can. This seems a bit unbalanced to me, even if you are correct in your interpretation of the rules (and I am sure you are). I find it hard to fathom that a meager +1 dagger could harm the spirit of the ghost, whereas a magic missile or lightning bolt cast by a mage would simply pass through without nary a harmful effect.

    thank you,

    -Lanthorn
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 03, 2011
    Posts: 79
    From: Fairwind Isle

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    Tue May 15, 2012 1:02 pm  

    you raise a good point Lanthorn and I could see making a case for this. The question of magical weapons vs. magical attacks using energy as weapons is what seems to be the issue here. A +1 (or higher) weapon, to me as a DM, has been infused with energy from the Positive Material Plane - or at least an Outer Plane that draws from there. In this case, perhaps the energy of the Positive Material Plane is what's causing the damage since one could conclude it's the source of "Good" in the universe.

    That "meager" +1 dagger isn't so meager after all! Smile
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Tue May 15, 2012 2:36 pm  

    Elliva, you likewise made a similarly good point, and one that my fellow 2e player/DM has made. His contention was that magic makes a temporary effect, whereas magical weapons are permanently infused with magick.

    Under the circumstances, I gather that only specific spells have any effect on a Ghost. One is Protection from Evil which prevents the Ghost's potentially lethal Magic Jar ability. I gather that the use of the priest's Dimensional Anchor could force a Ghost into the Prime Material Plane, whereby further magic could be used against it. Also, I would think that a successful Dispel Magic could be used to force a Ghost out of the Ethereal, too.

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:57 am  

    What about Glyphs of Warding?

    The Manual of the Planes makes mention that this spell can be used to ward off creatures in the Ethereal...so I am under the distinct impression that a ghost would be affected by it.

    -Lanthorn
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3806
    From: So. Cal

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    Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:55 pm  

    It would be better if, when you reference a book, you gave a page number for the reference. Makes it a heck of a lot easier to then find it, see exactly what it says, put it into context, and so give an opinion on it.
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:17 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:
    It would be better if, when you reference a book, you gave a page number for the reference. Makes it a heck of a lot easier to then find it, see exactly what it says, put it into context, and so give an opinion on it.


    Embarassed My bad: Check out "The Ethereal Plane" section, specifically the bottom of page 11 to top of page 12.

    -Lanthon
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:42 am  

    Glyphs do work on ethereal creatures (the answer in MotP is clear enough I would think). It doesn't matter that it is a spell. As we well know, ghosts are not immune to all spells when they are ethereal (just most of them). Wards are often effective against extra-planar creatures, whether they are ethereal or not. And I don't just mean spells from the Wards sphere, but spells that ward/protect areas like glyph of warding, forbiddance, protection from evil 10' r., or spells that affect certain creatures that come into contact with them or their area of effect, like prayer, protection from evil, curse, slow, etc. The ghost entry is about spell casters attacking them with magic anyways, meaning damaging spells like fireball, magic missile, etc. Some spells, like bolt of glory, holy word, or control undead may affect ghosts too, whether ethereal or not.

    One more bit to remember: a ghost needs to semi-materialize to use its touch attack.
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