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    Canonfire :: View topic - Fatigue Pts
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Fatigue Pts
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:19 pm  
    Fatigue Pts

    I am posting this in honor of my neophyte, but truly industrious, 2e brother, Nerdcav:

    Who uses Fatigue Pts (namely 2nd edition rules, but feel free to expand on that)?

    Why, or why not?

    Any modifications to their use?

    -Lanthorn, Query Master
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:06 am  

    OK, I will get this ball starting...

    1) I do use Fatigue Points

    2) ...mainly b/c I think it is absurd to have fighting and running, dodging and spell-casting lasting for an infinite amount of time. It is tedious at times, but I have never been one to let that stop me, as I am one who is a meticulous note-taker as a DM (spell component proponent here!). Furthermore, I like the added 'realism.'

    3) I have tinkered with some of the basic 'rules' as to their use. I am not sure if this is 'in the rules' or not, but I add a character's Con hp bonus to their FR. If you have the Endurance proficiency, I add that rating, too.
    Because spell-casters can be at a disadvantage on this, I treat their Wisdom (clerics) or Intelligence (mages) rating similar to a Con score for bonus FR pts. For instance, a cleric with a 16 Wis or a wizard with a 16 Int has +2 FR for spell-casting purposes only.
    I've even thought of allowing spell-casters to have a separate FR score for spell-casting purposes, treating them as a fighter for Fatigue (base 10 pts). This gives them a "fighting" chance in holding their own, but ONLY for spell-casting and not actual physical combat.
    Finally, I 'charge' spell-casters different rates of fatigue based on the level of spell cast. For instance, a 1st lvl spell costs 1 FR while a 5th lvl spell costs 5 FR. This reflects the inherent power and intensity of the magic that must be channeled through the caster's mortal form and the drain on the body. It QUICKLY tires out a caster who hurls high lvl spells one after another.
    Remember that you CAN recover, but it takes time (1 pt each round of rest). Furthermore, the cleric 4th lvl Necromantic spell (Spells and Magic book) doubles the FR of a character! At least, that's how I ruled it. Furthermore, I let the affected character recover at double the rate. Very helpful.

    -Lanthorn
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 25, 2012
    Posts: 106
    From: Virginia

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    Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:51 am  

    I would like to use Fatigue, but I'm curious how you track the points efficiently. I feel the only way for it not to cramp combat is for it to be cleanly and reliably managed, so that the players can almost get a 'feel' for how their characters are doing in regards to fatigue.
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:05 am  

    Here's what I do. Tabulate the Fatigue Pt count/rating for each character and write it down, like a character ability score, on the PC sheet. Adjust it as characters increase in level.

    For keeping character sheets clean, on another sheet of paper, I record all character hp, XP, and spells used. Do the same for fatigue. Every round of combat or spell-casting uses 1 fatigue pt (unless you use some of my modified house rules, charging casters different fatigue pts for different spell lvls). Tis easy and clean that way. Or have characters keep track of their own ratings, if you like.

    -Lanthorn, Meticulous DM
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 03, 2011
    Posts: 79
    From: Fairwind Isle

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    Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:06 pm  

    I don't use fatigue points although I've considered it. I definitely see the benefits in one sense but I always try to work things into the narrative of the adventure. At low levels fatigue points aren't really necessary, in my humble opinion since a few combats can be all the party can handle.

    Once a party is more capable, there's a couple of things that can be used. First is game time, for example, one hour of real life time might end up being 6 hours of game time if they party is exploring fighting, etc. What I enjoy most is dropping subtle hints that they're tiring out if they've been fighting or exerting themselves a lot. I might say to the fighter player, "another battle with the skeleton warriors and your arms are starting to feel heavy, yet you push on", then maybe later "your arms ache / stiffen...etc". and if they really start to keep going without rest or magical rejuvenation, I actually penalize them but rather than tell them explicitly I might say "you're absolutely sure the strike was true but the target deflected / dodged / escaped..."

    I haven't had anyone really go beyond that, even the mightiest mortal warriors tire, magic-users can't concentrate, thieves' hands get a bit jittery, etc.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2591
    From: LG Dyvers

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    Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:22 pm  

    This discussion reminds me of Jackie Chan in Super Cop. He got tired and had to stop and rest while running up a hill. I remember being impressed and thinking that Steven Segal, Van Damme, or any other action hero would never have done such a thing in their movies. Kudos to Jackie Chan. Smile

    SirXaris
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
    Posts: 1234
    From: New Jersey

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    Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:53 pm  

    Fatigue points make sense but need to be tracked for all npc types as well. How do you handle monster and NPC fatigue ? Does hit dice affect the result? Do dwarves and similar races get physically fatigued at a lesser rate? Mental fatigue happens as well so it makes sense to include wisdom or intelligence. Heck one can be less charming when too tired to put in the effort they normally exhibit.

    Overall the balls in your court speed and pace of the game or management of different factors. If your players don't mind and your game is still fun run with what ever floats your boat.

    Later

    Argon
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:26 am  

    Argon, my friend! Tis been a while since our paths crossed, barbarian and bladesinger. Wink

    You are correct that NPCs and creatures also need to be tracked. For non-class beings, Fatigue pts are based on hit die, as noted in the Options: Combat & Tactics. I don't currently have that tome in front of me at the moment, but methinks that creatures and non-classed beings get a Fatigue rating of base 8 pts plus 1 pt for each HD rating they have (either that, or for every HD above 1...don't recall right now). I am sure someone will correct me if I erred, and I will double check when I am able.

    Thus, a 4 HD creature would have 8 + 4 pts = Fatigue rating of 12.

    In the case of dwarves, in accordance with The Complete Book of Dwarves, if you have/use it, they automatically earn the Endurance proficiency. Anyone with the Endurance proficiency adds their rating to their base Fatigue rating. It starts at (I believe) a 3 rating. Thus, even a non-classed dwarf (1 HD) would start off with 8 pts +1 (HD) + 3 pts = 12 Fatigue.

    The only creatures offhand that may not require Fatigue points would be, in my estimation, anything Undead and perhaps Elementals. Not sure about extra-planar creatures...may need to peruse that in the aforementioned book.

    thanks for the post, my Wise Axe-Wielding Friend!

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:48 pm  

    Just accessed my Combat & Tactics book and I was correct: monsters/creatures have Base 8 fatigue pts + 1 pt for each HD. Constitution bonuses also apply for characters, too ( +1 for each bonus hp given).

    -Lanthorn
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 09, 2001
    Posts: 655


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    Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:57 am  

    I play a PBeM (actually play by bulletin board) and a lot the rules I'd like to use, including Fatigue which I've never used before) seem like they'd become rather cumbersome. I actually use a lot of other stuff, like criticals, wounds, knockdowns, and some other things, but don't really bother too much to follow them exactly. When a guy takes a 30 point slam from a giant, I knock him backwards. It just makes things easier, and generally things make sense.

    Anyway, I'm just wondering if this would be too hard to use in such a game. I do combat pretty much round-by-round, so in that respect it wouldn't be hard. However, I don't and can't really keep track of time like normally I would. I do keep "general" track of hours and days, but I just wonder how this would work.

    Any ideas?
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2459
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:50 am  

    Ragnar,

    I don't play by bulletin board, so I am totally ignorant how those mechanics and systems work compared to a traditional setting.

    If there is a way for you to keep track of rounds, it would be simple enough to deduct the appropriate number of fatigue points from each character (and enemy). Not sure if I answered your query, though...

    -Lanthorn
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1276
    From: Clarksville, TN

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    Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:22 am  

    ragnar wrote:
    I play a PBeM (actually play by bulletin board) and a lot the rules I'd like to use, including Fatigue which I've never used before) seem like they'd become rather cumbersome...


    -When I DM'ed AD&D2, I used fatigue points, but dropped them with D&D 3.5. You just have to make saving throws in certain situations, and puts you into fatigued or exhausted status, sometimes with non-lethal hit point damage. Since it uses the same system as hot and cold weather damage, it's simple.
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