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    Canonfire :: View topic - Reducing Areas of Effect
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Reducing Areas of Effect
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:33 am  
    Reducing Areas of Effect

    Here is a follow-up question that links to my previous one (about Dismissing Spells at Will):

    Can a spell-caster reduce areas of effect?

    Upon reading the entry, it seems to imply such, at least down to a single 10 foot cube (or sphere, if the effect is spherical), if the spell is under the 'construction' of the caster. Thusly, a Fireball or Lightning Bolt cannot be reduced in area, but perhaps something like a Slow or Web could be.

    Thoughts?

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2701
    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:17 am  

    I think you're playing with fire here, Lanthorn. If you allow a caster to manipulate the area of effect of any spell they cast any time he likes, you'll take away one of the major risks of casting such spells. As an example, one of my players recently caught a fellow party member in his sorcerer's Sleep spell. The results were dissastrous for the party.

    I can't remember the 2nd Ed. rules well, but in 3rd Ed. there is a feat that a caster can take that allows him to manipulate the area of effect of a spell. I have never seen it used, but it always seemed a very powerful one, in my estimation. You might allow something similar in your campaign and see how badly it is abused. Razz

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:54 am  

    SirXaris wrote:
    I think you're playing with fire here, Lanthorn.


    Good thing that Trithereon grants Protection sphere! Happy

    Like I said, not all spells could be reduced, but only those that the caster 'shapes' and manipulates with flexible areas of effect. Those with fixed areas could not be manipulated, and I think that Sleep is just such an example. In fact, one of my own players also accidentally put 'to sleep' one of his comrades (YEARS ago when he was a minor caster). Embarassed

    -Lanthorn
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:34 pm  

    An area of effect cannot be changed unless it is specified in the spell description that the caster can do so. There is a spell that alters the shape of an area of effect though (squaring the circle), and one that potentially protects allies (and the caster) within the area of effect of damaging spells (safeguarding). Both of those spells are in Tome of Magic.

    There is always spell research too. You might have a spell that can alter areas of effect, perhaps shrinking an area of effect by one 10' cube/10' length/1' radius per level, or increasing an area of effect by one 10' cube/10' length/1' radius per three levels (yes, it is more costly power-wise to increase an area of effect Wink), and perhaps make it a 5th level spell that has a duration or 1 round/level and can potentially affect ALL spells cast during the duration of said area of effect altering spell. Call it arcane transmogrification, or something similarly grandiose. Laughing
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:30 pm  

    Agreed, Ceb. What has me wondering about a caster's ability to minimize the area of effect is the following statement (page 129) of the PHB:

    "Spells with an area or volume that can be shaped by the caster will, unless the spell description specifically states otherwise, have a minimum dimension of 10 feet in any direction."

    I interpret this to mean that the caster can reduce the area of effect of a spell at will, unless the spell outright says otherwise.

    I don't see why a caster shouldn't be able to minimize the effects of spells if he/she can shape the magic, especially if the effect is based on power level and skill, and I can surely see why it would be more prudent in some situations to do so.

    much thanks,

    Lanthorn
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:53 pm  

    The spells being referenced with regard to variable area spells like phantasmal force an other such illusions, where the illusion can be up to as big as the full area of effect, or as small as the caster desires. For instance, an illusion spell could be used to create something as big as a dragon, but the same spell could also be used to create an illusion of an asp without the asp being required to be dragon-sized.

    As to not seeing why a spell couldn't be created smaller, think about allowing such a thing, and then having a mage character fireball an enemy in close combat with an ally, but only hit the enemy because the fireball has been reduced to having a 1cm radius, but it still burns the heck out of the enemy for d6 per level of the caster. Bets re-title that spell sniperball then. Or have a mage character cast a cloudkill, but a really small one so that it targets an enemy's nostril which will then sink to the lowest point (said enemy's lungs/stomach), and so won't hurt any allies fighting said enemy in close combat, and other such can-of-worms-ish horrors that no DM in their right mind would want to deal with. Players try to get away with enough stuff as it is. Laughing
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:19 am  

    Ceb, I totally get where you are coming from, and I thought of the same concerns, of course. Your illusion example was one of my own, but I am thinking that the absolute minimum area of effect that a spell could be reduced would be a ten foot square or sphere. This would prevent such actions as you mentioned previously. Furthermore, I would only permit such actions for those spells with a flexible area of effect, NOT something with a fixed area of effect like a Fireball (20 foot detonation radius).

    If 10 feet seems too unreasonable, perhaps limiting the variable area of effect to the minimum caster level required to enact the spell. For instance, if a 3rd lvl spell has an area of effect of 10 sq ft/lvl, maybe allowing the min effect to be 50 sq feet (for the 5th lvl min required to use it).

    -Lanthorn
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2007
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    From: The Pomarj

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    Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm  

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