Apologies if I have overlooked an existing thread about this topic but I was wondering if there are any canon references to Pyremius actually killing Ranet. I know there are references saying that he poisoned her and assumed her portfolio of fire (The Scarlet Brotherhood and the LGG) but not that she actually died from the ordeal (although her ommission from any published material about the deities clearly indicates she's out of action one way or another)
I'm aware of some association with snakes which I think may be referenced in The Scarlet Brotherhood also but is there anything that directly ties Ranet to serpents?
I'd also be really interested to hear any other thoughts about Ranet.
It depends on whether or not you consider Complete Divine to be canon. The Scarlet Brotherhood is ambiguous on the matter.
Complete Divine states outright that he slew her, but I consider that to be a very low-ranking form of canon. I don't have any problem with incorporating references from generic 3rd edition sources into Greyhawk, but this one is clearly an echo of an echo, just thrown in there with little regard for the setting and its history, so it isn't a priority at all for me.
The association with snakes comes from Dwellers of the Forbidden City, which says this:
Quote:
The humans are nearly blind from the centuries of underground existence and rely on their other heightened senses to survive. They hate those who bring light, worshipping the kindly god of darkness who drives away the demons of light. It is rumored that somewhere in the tunnels is the fabulous lost temple of Ranet. The temple is there, and is guarded by the giant snake-queen.
The fact that her temple is guarded by a snake-queen associates her with snakes. The fact that it's guarded by the snake-queen implies that the snake-queen might be Ranet, perhaps some final, dwindled avatar. It's not clear if Ranet is the same as the "kindly god of darkness."
Well, this is interesting. I had always assumed that Ranet had died, but I find some contradiction in the canon sources I've looked at.
The earliest ref I found to her is in I-6 "Dwellers of the Forbidden City," in the suggestions for continuing adventures section, it discusses the last human descendants of the yuan-ti ancestors. In this I believe they were referring to the human ancestors who did not turn to demon worship, and so did not turn into yuan-ti. It says of them "The humans are nearly blind from the centuries of underground existence and rely on their other heightened senses to survive. They hate those who bring light, worshipping the kindly god of darkness who drives away the demons of light. It is rumored that somewhere in the tunnels is the fabulous lost temple of Ranet. The temple is there, and is guarded by the giant snake-queen."
The next ref is in "Scarlet Brotherhood" where it says that, "...he (Pyremius) poisoned Ranet, the previous Suel goddess of fire, during the height of the Suel empire. With Ranet weakened, Pyremius was able to steal her fire portfolio and corrupt it from a life-giving power into a destructive element."
LG refs are in the LGG and "LG Official Listing of Deities for Use in the Campaign," which all say basically that she was poisoned by Pyremius and he stole her portfolio.
The only canon ref to her death is the short blurb on Pyremius in "The Complete Divine" where it says, "...but he (Pyremius) slew a goddess of fire and assumed her portfolio, worshipers and all."
So SKR said poisoned and weakened, but never dead. LG sources say poisoned, but never explicitly say dead. Only Complete Divine says dead. I find some contradiction between SKR and Complete Divine, but other may not see that. But I would use the first ref in I-6 as an indication that she didn't die, unless the humans in question are worshiping a dead goddess, although to me, it might indicate some transformation, with her fire aspect stripped from her, as having become a "... kindly god of darkness who drives away the demons of light." The temple is guarded by "...the giant snake-queen." You could assume that is Ranet in weakened form, or it could just be some random giant snake-queen, either working for, or against Ranet's purposes. Very interesting subject, however you split it, where I hadn't really seen much substance before. Thanks for bringing this up!
It's possible that the "kindly god of darkness" worshiped by the subterranean humans is completely unrelated to Ranet. The humans are of Olman descent if you go by Sean K. Reynolds' account of the yuan-ti origins, so perhaps the god of darkness is a more benevolent aspect of Tezcatlipoca (at least, the humans might consider him to be benevolent; their enemies might disagree). The "demons of light" might be couatls in the service of Tecatlipoca's enemy Quetzalcoatl.
The temple of Ranet might have been constructed by the Suloise in a separate migration; they might even have built it during the time of the Suel Imperium, before the Olmans built a city over the ruins of the Suloise colony.
Here I'm going to plug my "Legend of Pyremius and Ranet" article, which is decidedly not canon. In the story Pyremius uses poison _and_ a knife to kill her (a god of assassins has to be thorough). What I left out of the story, and haven't appended in its comments yet, is that she isn't quite dead, and is in fact feeling much better. A group called the Embers of Ranet has kept her worship alive through the centuries, and the intent in my campaign is that she may soon make a full-blown return to deityhood.
I had a read of your article Chevalier, it was nicely done! I like the idea that Ranet may one day return.
In my mind I'd also associated Suloise snake-goddess reference with Beltar but she could hardly be thought of as a benign god of darkness!
I guess with Ranet, the facts are so sketchy that it provides the DM with great scope to concoct their own exciting version.
Maybe the benign god of darkness is Beltar and she only gained the portfolio of Malice when her sister Ranet was assaulted? Both with serpent associations, one of lightness the other darkness. Just a thought!
Ivid the Undying speculates that the Suloise snake goddess whose idol was discovered on the Isle of Serpents might be Wee Jas. Maybe an ancient Suel culture just liked snakes and represented all of their gods that way.
The question remains: why is there a temple to a Suloise goddess beneath the Olman city of Xuxulieto?
The question remains: why is there a temple to a Suloise goddess beneath the Olman city of Xuxulieto?
If there were still some worshipers of Ranet among the Suel refugees, maybe some of them among Eri-hep-Mona's followers ended up in the Forbidden City, but were driven underground where they mixed with the nearly blind descendants of the city's original Olman inhabitants who fled from the yuan ti. The Olman had long ago forgotten their own gods, but the new goddess of darkness brought by the Suel refugees appealed to them so they adopted her, building a temple. Later, they were driven out of the temple by the snake-queen, a powerful yuan ti abomination, who was herself driven underground after trying to seize control of the yuan ti political factions in the city. I'm probably reaching some, but it could work.
All I wanna say here is that this thread is absolutely amazing.
I like to think of myself as fairly well informed and doing a fair amount of research (especially in the cultures of Qestern Oerik), but I never fail to learn from threads like this. (Especially when Rasgon and Smilliam are involved!)
... just sayin'.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
