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    Canonfire :: View topic - Do Oriental Adventures Monks replace PHB Occidental Monks?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 1st Edition
    Do Oriental Adventures Monks replace PHB Occidental Monks?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2008
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    From: Long Beach, California USA

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    Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:02 pm  
    Do Oriental Adventures Monks replace PHB Occidental Monks?

    This is a question I have been wondering about for a while but just haven't made the time to come back to the forums to ask: As written the Oriental Adventures Monk is recommended to replace the old PHB Monk.

    Seeing how there are two different Barbarians, a UA one and a OA Oriental Barbarian, I don't see why there can't be two different Monks.

    The two versions are very similar. The thing I dislike however is how the Quivering Palm ability is stripped. Do Scarlet Brotherhood Monks use the OA rules then?

    I know how rules in UA rework and replace existing class structures for Paladins, Rangers, and Fighters. I guess what I am wondering is if the Monk in the PHB is then also replaced by the one in OA? Question
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

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    Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:29 pm  

    As to the "rules," I cannot say, not without some research. But I will offer this:

    In the "real world," there are two types of Monks; Oriental and "Christian." The Oriental Monk practices the martial arts, Christian Monks do not.

    So I don't see why there wouldn't be two different types of Monks in D&D -- if not more than two. In such a circumstance, their teachings, outlooks and philosophies would be different, leaving plenty of room for "options."
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:24 pm  

    There has been lots of discussion previously about what to do with monks. I will try to find those threads for you and link them.

    A 2e thread on this topic: http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5021&highlight=monks

    A general forum on monks that I penned: http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4732&highlight=monks

    A 1e thread on this topic: http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2993&highlight=monks

    I hope this helps you.

    In short, though, I have opted to use the Scarlet Brotherhood monk as written in the supplement entitled The Scarlet Brotherhood and apply it to ALL Occidental monks.

    -Lanthorn
    Paladin

    Joined: Sep 07, 2011
    Posts: 833
    From: Houston Texas

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    Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:18 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:

    In short, though, I have opted to use the Scarlet Brotherhood monk as written in the supplement entitled The Scarlet Brotherhood and apply it to ALL Occidental monks.


    same.. I had those of a "far orient" flavor make the trip from far away lands across the sea of dust ( or could be by boat via Sea Princes maybe?
    That keeps pace with the original EGG intent and gives you as a group another whole culture to explore should you make the trip in the opposing direction... to the "Far West"? (or East I guess if you go far enough) There is an extensive thread expanding this whole culture (and Map for that matter) some where around here....
    Keep in mind (depending the depth of your detail for language barriers) that common might not be so common to those travelers... Evil Grin
    though the origins could be similar...
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2008
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    Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:21 am  

    I guess my issue has more to do with rules set, rather than the cultural aspects. Although I must thank you guys for your input here.

    I am mainly concerned if I am to throw out the PHB rules entry on monks from 1978 and adopt the OA rules due to mechanical updates given to the class in 1985.

    I think what I have concluded is that monks found anywhere in the "Western" European style lands will be using the original PHB 1978 write up and the monks found in "Eastern" Asian style lands will be using the OA book from 1985. Same as the Barbarians.

    I just think "Western Monks" such as the ones suggested in the Greyhawk boxed set 1983 under Scarlet Brotherhood should not be stripped of the Quivering Palm ability. OA monks (which are supposed to be a suggested replacement of the class as written do exactly that.)

    Thing that makes the Barbarian easy to distinguish is both styles of Barbarian class were issued the same year in 1985 with UA and OA respectively. One actually has the title "Oriental Barbarian". Maybe if the Monk had been titled "Oriental Monk" in OA, I would not be asking this question.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:25 am  

    Soft-Paws wrote:
    I am mainly concerned if I am to throw out the PHB rules entry on monks from 1978 and adopt the OA rules due to mechanical updates given to the class in 1985.


    Ah! That one's easy!

    You are the DM, use the rule set you like best. No one, including WotC can tell you how to play your game. It's your game.

    Interpretation -- there is no "right or wrong" with it. Wink

    All anyone here can do is offer their opinion as to why they use the rule set that they do. Cool
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:33 am  

    Thank you, I wholeheartedly agree with that!

    It's just a bugging annoying thing. I am coming back to 1e after a long time and deciding to go this route due to flavor and style as opposed to the newfangled systems of D&D.


    Last edited by Soft-Paws on Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:20 am  

    Well after reading a few posts here, and some on Dragonsfoot and Grognardia dealing with OA.

    Apparently the modifications of the class are significant enough that if a player wishes to play a monk then we as a gaming group will use the PHB rules. If I run a OA game then all characters will be from OA.

    I had seriously wondered why OSRIC had left the Monk class out of their core book. Now I know. OSRIC also doesn't deal with the Bard, but yet neither does Labyrinth Lord.

    I don't know. All of this is of course according to tastes of the DM, as to what to rules to agree with.

    Anyway guys thanks for your input. Smile


    Last edited by Soft-Paws on Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:43 am  

    Soft-Paws wrote:
    I am coming back to 1e after a long time and deciding to go this route due to flavor and style as opposed to the newfangled systems of D&D . . . Anyway guys thanks for your input.


    Allow me to enlarge upon previous comments.

    In spite of certain "claims," there are, in reality, very few "purist" here. Most of the people you speak with borrow from other rule systems. I, myself, prefer 2e, but have no problem replacing ThAC0. Shocked Evil Grin

    So incorporate anything you like into your 1e. If most of what you use is 1e, then as far as I'm concerned, you are playing 1e. Incorporating improvements from other systems doesn't negate that. Cool Happy
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2008
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    Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:57 pm  

    Sound advice good scholar! Happy
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