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    Canonfire :: View topic - Rulers of Knurl
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    Rulers of Knurl
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
    Posts: 933
    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:02 pm  
    Rulers of Knurl

    (cross-posted from Dragonsfoot)

    I'm working on an adventure centered around Knurl c. 572 CY, and I'm not quite sure who holds the town at this time. In putting together the below chronology, I'm left with some apparent contradictions. Am I missing a piece of the puzzle?

      108 CY: "Aerdi forces mass in the frontier town of Knurl [to drive back Fruztii raiders]" (Living Greyhawk Gazetteer)
      283 CY: Firan Zal'honan ("Azal'Lan") rises to power in County of Knurl (King of the Dead)
      329 CY: Azal'Lan attains lichdom (King)
      391 CY: Azal'Lan vanishes from the Flanaess (King)
      563 CY: Bone March falls to humanoids (A Guide to the World of Greyhawk)
      before 576 CY: Nyrond-Almor forces capture Knurl (Guide)
      577–578 CY: "Knurl, an independent town under the control of evil humans, is said to be recruiting hobgoblins..." (DRAGON #57)
      578 CY: Count Dunstan holds Knurl (Saga of Old City)

    I think the biggest wrinkle here is the Guide reference to Nyrond-Almor capturing Knurl prior to 576. If we push that back to 578, the timeline works. Knurl would have been controlled by evil humans for some length of time between 563 & 578. Any other thoughts/suggestions/references?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 494
    From: Dantredun, MN

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    Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:00 pm  

    Well, the crux of my DF post was that Nyrond's occupation of Knurl in Dragon #59 supersedes the "evil humans" reference #57. Since the Guide, Saga, Dr57 and Dr59 can't all agree, it's best to go with three out of four, give Knurl to Nyrond, and caulk the evil humans in #57 up as a reference to an earlier time (or make Dunstan quickly cede and turn evil). Also, Dunstan's occupation in Saga doesn't seem in any way recent - Evaleigh is clearly homesick and excited to return home on the last day of her journey.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
    Posts: 538
    From: Germany

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    Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:41 am  

    Did you check the living Adri site's history or their timeline? The German LGH team did their homework very well though I don't know their sources...
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1358
    From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU

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    Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:21 am  
    Re: Rulers of Knurl

    DMPrata wrote:

    ... In putting together the below chronology, I'm left with some apparent contradictions. Am I missing a piece of the puzzle?
    ...577–578 CY: "Knurl, an independent town under the control of evil humans, is said to be recruiting hobgoblins..." (DRAGON #57)


    -I do that general area (more Ratik, but...). My solution was to note that it says "...is said to be recruiting hobgoblins..." and assume that the reference to "evil humans" is simply an assumption based on the rumor (i.e., "If Knurl is recruiting hobgoblins, they must be evil."). I assume it's just a rumor based on the questions swirling around Count Dunstan's loyalties at the time and let it go.

    At some point in the distant future, the PCs could be sent to check out the rumors.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 28, 2003
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    Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:24 pm  

    I find the whole Azal'Lan history to be bad canon. Yes, the novel says what it says, BUT it beggars belief that tiny backwater town Knurl created a kingdom that ate into the Great Kingdom at the height of the GK's power and resisted all attempts to bring it to heel. I don't think the author of that novel had a clue what was going on with GH.

    It is like saying the mayor of Scranton PA declared independece for his town, seized the State of Pennsylvania with his police force and then laughed in the face of the U.S. Army as it was powerless to put down the revolt.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU

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    Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:03 pm  

    Raphael wrote:
    ...It is like saying the mayor of Scranton PA declared independece for his town, seized the State of Pennsylvania with his police force and then laughed in the face of the U.S. Army as it was powerless to put down the revolt.


    -Actually, something just like that happened in Wikes Barre in 1888.

    Just kidding. Evil Grin Wink

    Raphael wrote:
    I find the whole Azal'Lan history to be bad canon. Yes, the novel says what it says...


    -What novel is this?

    Raphael wrote:
    ...I don't think the author of that novel had a clue what was going on with GH...


    -I got that feeling about some module writers... Laughing
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:09 pm  

    I think it's more like saying the Bone March, Almor, or Nyrond managed to secede from the Great Kingdom for a time, all of which happened. Azal'Lan swore fealty to the Overking in 283 CY and didn't really start conquering the surrounding region until 372 CY. He renounced his fealty to Rauxes between 372 CY and 391 CY, after Nyrond had already seceded. He captured Innspa and vanished in 391 CY.

    Was this the height of the Great Kingdom? I don't think so. The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer says this:

    Quote:
    From 213 CY on, the Aerdi overkings grew lax, caring more for their local prestige and wealth than the affairs of their vassals in distant lands. This period was called the Age of Great Sorrow. As each sovereign passed, he was replaced with a more dimwitted and less competent successor, until the outer dependencies of Aerdy declared their independence.


    Ferrond seceded in 254 CY. Nyrond seceded in 356 CY, partly because barbarian raids were forcing the Overking to divert his troops. It seems to me that the then-Earldom of Knurl seceding in 372-391 CY is right at the time when the Great Kingdom was beginning to fall apart. From all reports, the Rax overkings were all disasters between 213 and the dynasty's fall in 437.

    Quote:
    So proceeded an inexorable decline that began as the rulers of House Rax became progressively neglectful, decadent, or dimwitted. Provinces began calving off the empire like icebergs into the sea, beginning with Ferrond in 254 CY. Many noble and good Aerdi were expatriated by these secessions, leaving the heart of the kingdom to opportunists. By 356 CY, Overking Portillan could not even prevent his own cousin, the viceroy of Nyrond in Rel Mord, from breaking with the Malachite Throne and declaring his independence.


    If Scranton had a powerful undead wizard-king under an administration that resolutely didn't want to deal with powerful undead wizard-kings, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a chunk of Pennsylvania might become effectively independent for a time.


    Last edited by rasgon on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:47 am; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

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    Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:30 pm  

    jamesdglick wrote:
    -What novel is this?


    The novel is called King of the Dead by Gene DeWeese. The same information is summarized in the module From the Shadows by Bruce Nesmith.
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