No bump needed, unless there is something to add here that has not been posted in the other thread (i.e. doesn't have to do with professionals and such).
-Actually, I meant to post this here:
jamesdglick wrote:
Might as well put this here, too:
On the issue of classes and levels, there's the D&D 3.5 DMG, pp. 138-139.
I've had some charts I did a while ago, and I'm in the process of typing them up real pretty, so I might as well put them to use here.
Going through the permutations (by hand, so it might be fallible), you get this for an "average" hamlet with 240 adults:
...e.g., there would be an average of 3.25 fighters of all levels (1.35% of the adult population), and there would be 10.156 experts of all levels (3.936% of the adult population), 3.936 of whom would be Exp2 or higher. Overall, the 51.31 (or 21.38%) of the adults would be something other than a Com1.
These figures are for an "average" place in an "average" society (probably heavy on the Forgotten Realms and Eberron, neither of which I'm really familiar with). I've always assumed that the Flaneass would be a lot heavier on fighters, scouts, and experts, but lighter on warriors (since many could be trained very easily to fighter standard), while barbarians, paladins, and monks would normally only be found certain regions. But, although I think our villagers would get in some practice, and would do some sort of training (once quarter at fest time), I don't think the formal training would be that rigorous.
Cebrion wrote:
...So, after having rolled some dice (yes, I really did), the population will be made up of 267 hardy souls (about 45 families, plus other individuals)...
...since our population is higher, would could just add 11% ( x 1.11) to the numbers. In reality, as a community gets larger, the proportion of non-Com1's decreases (only 15.47% in a village of 650), but the odds of a higher than 4th level type increases a little. In most cases, it doesn't make a big difference. But it's a consideration. Since the Gamboge seems a little more dangerous than the average place, I'd round up for levels, averaging hamlets and villages.
So, I figure that our hamlet-sized "village" would have the following:
Ftr: Average, round down (Not a whole lot of guys training with heavy armor and tower shields, here, but the incentive to train is here. Maybe some could be swashbucklers or hexblades? Of course, swashbuckler is usually more of an urban thing); 3 fighters, inc. maybe 1 hexblade? Most would be 1st or 2nd level, typically as high as 4th level, with an absolute maximum of 7th level.
Rgr: Well above average (The woodland thing is obvious, and IIRC, 75% of men from the Gnarley have at least one level of ranger. I wouldn't go that high here, but even 10% of the population isn't unprecedented. Instead of rangers, they might be scouts); at least 3 rangers or scouts. Most would be 1st or 2nd level, with an absolute maximum of 10th level (see the modification for rangers and hamlets).
Bbn: Well below average, if any (A D&D 3X barbarian is more like an AD&D1 or AD&D2 beserker. The closest places to find them would be the Cold Suel Barbarians, Stonefist, or someone raised in an Orc or Ogre tribe. Not that they couldn't be in the village, but you will have some explaining to do...); 0 barbarians. If there is one, 3rd level max.
Pal: Well below average, if any. (Same issue as fighters, plus Lawful Good); 0 paladins. If there is one, 2nd level, max.
Rog: Average, round up (A D&D 3X rogue can be a lot of things other than a thief. The AD&D2 kit for scouts would be ideal. Using the AD&D2 Complete Thief's HB, table 11, it seems unlikely that you'd have more than one rogue in the community who is a full time criminal, if that); 4 rogues or scouts, of whom 1 (a C and/or E-aligned type) might be a rogue of the criminal sort, probably preying on passers-by rather than locals. Most would be 1st or 2nd level, typically as high as 4th level, with an absolute maximum of 7th level.
Brd: Average, round up (It looks like this place is going to have some sort of Old Faith foundation, and bards fit in to that); 3 bards. Most would be 1st or 2nd level, reasonably as high as 3rd level, with an absolute maximum of 5th level.
Wiz: Average, round down (I don't see this place as producing or attracting a lot of wizards, but one hedge wizard wouldn't be out of place, perhaps with an apprentice?); 1 wizard. Most would be 1st or 2nd level, with an absolute maximum of 3rd level.
Sor: Average, round down; 1 sorcerer, or maybe a hexblade. Probably 1st or 2nd level, with an absolute maximum of 3rd level.
Clr: Average, round down; 2 clerics. Probably 1st or 2nd level, typically as high as 3rd level, with an absolute maximum of 5th level.
Drd: Above average (Again, the Old Faith seems to be strong here); 4 druids. Most would be 1st or 2nd level, typically as high as 3rd level, with an absolute maximum of 10th level (see the modification for hamlets and druids).
Mnk: Well below average, if any. (I mean, come on); 0 monks. If there is one, 3rd level max.
War: Average, round up (In AD&D terms, a War1 is a 0 level man-at-arms/fighter type. A lot of under-trained talent); 14 warriors, inc. at least 2 of whom is a War2 or higher. Most would be 1st or 2nd level, typically as high as 4th level, with an absolute maximum of 7th level (possibly combined with another class). Any War2s or higher are probably at least 21 years old.
Ari: Below average (In AD&D terms, an Ari1 is a 0 level man-at-arms/fighter/cavalier type. Maybe the son of the wealthiest folks in town?); 1 aristocrat, probably an Ari1.
Exp: Average, round up (They're able to make a decent living in the middle of nowhere. They must be doing something right); 12 experts, of whom at least 5 are Exp2 or higher, (possibly combined with another class). Any Exp2s or higher are probably at least 25 years old.
Adp: Average, round up (In AD&D terms, a 0 level cleric or druid); 3 adepts, or whom at least 1 is an Adp2 or higher. I'd make 2 representatives of non-druid dominant faiths, and one Old Faith. These would also be obvious candidates for midwives and healers. Most would be 1st or 2nd level, typically as high as 3rd level, with an absolute maximum of 5th level. Any Adp2s or higher are probably at least 25 years old.
Com: Anyone left over is a commoner, with maybe 6 or 7 of them 2nd level or higher (possibly combined with another class). Any Com2s or higher are probably at least 30 years old.
Or maybe Cebrion wants to roll the dice randomly, and then modify...
Since a full stat description isn't even necessary (a "bonus"), this doesn't really limit anyone (if you really want to write up a guy who would probably be a 12th level monk, well, OK...). But maybe we can avoid too many paladins and monks, or super high levels?
..I would characterize this village as "above average", but I need be a bit more clear on what I mean by that. As to trades people, the village will be fairly average. As to individuals who actually have PC classes, they will be the "above average" component. Basically, these villagers would have the upper hand in a smack down with an equal number of "average" villagers. They are just a slight bit tougher. Most villages will have militia who are Warriors, with just a few fighters among them (former skilled soldiers/adventurers most likely), and led by a few fighters. This village still has Warrior class militia, but there is a higher percentage of villagers than average who are instead fighters or rangers. So, as as to fighting at least, the villagers are more skilled in a general sense, but not by much. There certainly won't be more barbarians, rogues, mages, or clerics though. Those classes would fall into the "average", and paladins would be below average, as the community is not geared towards a LG alignment at all (you can probably count all of the LG villagers on one hand). Monks would be out greatly of place too...
-Pretty much where I was going, right down the line, except I would add rangers and scout-like rogues (or scouts, for those who have Complete Adventurer) in lieu of warriors and fighters.
One other caveat I forgot is that the longer-lived non-humans:
Cebrion wrote:
...After about five generations...
Village Population (estimates, subject to modification)
That is for the village proper. There are a few lurkers living a bit out from the village too. the main reason for posting those numbers is so that people who may throw a non-human somewhere in their article doesn't go too crazy with them.
...would be disproportionately in the "non-commoner" classes, and higher level.
Cebrion wrote:
...Also, most armies are made up of Warriors (i.e. a spearman only really needs to know how to use a spear well, a bowman only really needs to know how to use a bow well, etc.). Highly trained forces within armies (like most cavalry and elite versions of regular units that carry an array of weaponry, and so need to know how to fight well with more than one weapon) are the Fighters.
-A subject near and dear to my heart.
War1's seem to largely be "natural fighters" in the rough. Using my training rules (a combination of D&D 3.5 DMG, pp. 197-198, AD&D 2 DMG, p. 49, and AD&D Greyhawk Adventures, pp. 119-124), it might only take a few weeks of training to turn a War1 into a Ftr1, if he (usually he) is 21 or younger. The D&D 3.5 rules define "most" soldiers/mercenaries as War1, but I think the standard is a little low (perhaps a Forgotten Realms/Eberon standard?). Most serious armies could pull it off, although you have to define "serious". Guys serving some sort of 40 or 60 day feudal service probably wouldn't have enough training, and I suspect that most our villagers would have even less training. I'm thinking one day during each of the four seasonal festivals (Freeday?), and most of the day would involve shooting and wrestling matches. If they wanted to be weekend warriors, they could have stayed in the Pale...
Just as a sideline, I always thought that the War1 was a little over-powered for a guy who's supposed to have only minimal training and practice. Proficient with tower shields? Heavy armor? Even Medium armor? All martial weapons? In the interest of convertibility, I accept it with gritted teeth. I know we've had a similar conversation about experts.
What a War1 can do is just a simplification so far as armor is concerned. And yes, a War1 can use a tower shield. There is historical justification for this, the example being that a heavy crossbow team included two men- one to work and fire the crossbow, and a second man to protect them both with a giant shield (and I don't mean a pavisse either). Now, if somebody has their War1s all marching about in full plate with tower shields, I am thinking that their world is a bit...off...to begin with. ;) but War1 also covers less sophisticate fighters too, meaning humanoids who will use all manner of weapons and armor, but just not be trained to be masterful with them. A few weeks shouldn't train a War 1 into an F1 either. F1 are seasoned veterans. Drilling and playing with blunted weapons doesn't create F1s. That is what most of the villagers are doing of course, and those that do are the War1s. Those that are sent out to take out humanoid raiders, bandits, monsters in woods, and other threats the F1s and Ran1s.
One reason there are more F1s here is the influx of Tenhas post-GH wars, and as to the Ran1s it is partially the location itself, which has attracted more than hearty than average souls to it over time. The other reason is that the village defends itself against everything, and that creates a few more better than average individuals than the usual village will have. There are no kingdom guards who patrol the village's roads and byways- they do it themselves, and the folk gain skills thereby. It takes many more years of doing this to make a F1 than spending time fighting wars does though. Most of the F1s and Ran1s will be 30+ years old, with perhaps a few stellar individuals being in their 20's. The freakishly gifted F1s and Ran1s (and other PC classed people) who are in their late teens would be the "adventurer quality" folks, which there are maybe 5 or less of in the entire place, so 1 out of every 50 or so, though that ratio will dwindle further as their number remains the same while the population total increases due to me adding in more people from the outlying area.
That just covers the more basic members of the militia though, and there are other more skilled individuals taking part in militia duties and/or living in the area. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
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