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    Canonfire :: View topic - Quiver: Holding Capacity
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Quiver: Holding Capacity
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:02 am  
    Quiver: Holding Capacity

    Perhaps another minor question, but wondering how many arrows (flight, sheaf, pile) can fit into an average quiver?

    I looked high and low in all my books and cannot seem to find it. Confused

    My gut tells me a score, or 20...

    If you find the answer, please cite your source and the page.

    thank you,

    Lanthorn
    Paladin

    Joined: Sep 07, 2011
    Posts: 833
    From: Houston Texas

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    Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:25 am  

    hummm just a quick google tells 20 to 30 depending on if shoulder, or hip quiver and head type,, will dig into books when I get home.... seems like it was in one of the complete equipment books....
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 15, 2010
    Posts: 60


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    Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:27 am  

    20 sounds reasonable. The Rules Cyclopedia and 3.5e PHB say 20 arrows. Historically, there were many different types, I've seen numbers range from 10 to 20.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2695
    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:05 pm  

    Sorry, I no longer have my older versions of the rules, but I do remember that since AD&D, quivers have held 20 arrows and bolt cases have held 10 bolts.

    SirXaris
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:56 pm  

    PHB 2E tells us nothing. Razz

    DMG 2E tells us this (by way of reference):

    Quote:
    Quiver of Ehlonna: This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 arrows.


    PHB1E tells us this:

    Quiver, 1 doz. arrows cap. 8 s.p.
    Quiver, 1 score arrows cap. 12 s.p.
    Quiver, 1 score bolts cap. 15 s.p.
    Quiver, 2 score bolts cap. 1 g.p.

    "cap." is short for capacity, of course. Wink

    20 is a good round number for the amount of arrows that will fit in a relatively standard sized quiver, considering that the arrows would be equipped with broadheads and not target points. It is not as if a character couldn't have a larger quiver made, or just carry a couple extra score bundles of extra arrows in their backpack though.... Wink
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:19 am  

    Ceb, you da man, sir! Thank you!

    Yep, I see it, right there, on page 36. I guess I should've checked out the 'original' guide! ooopppssss... Embarassed

    I gather that the 'quiver' in question regarding "bolts" is actually a bolt case for crossbows instead.

    Yeah, we found nothing in the 2e PHB or DMG, much less anything helpful in Combat & Tactics or even Arms & Equipment source guide. Confused

    Like yourself, we noted the description from the Quiver of Ehlonna and used that as a quick reference point, but your 1e PHB information is very helpful.

    Follow up question: are most arrows roughly the same dimensions, so that if a quiver holds up to 20 arrows, it doesn't (mostly) matter the type?

    For instance, you could have 10 sheaf and 10 flight, or 8 flight and 12 sheaf, etc...

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:28 am  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    Follow up question: are most arrows roughly the same dimensions, so that if a quiver holds up to 20 arrows, it doesn't (mostly) matter the type?

    For instance, you could have 10 sheaf and 10 flight, or 8 flight and 12 sheaf, etc...


    IIRC, the reason sheaf arrows do more damage is because they have larger, spade-shaped heads. Flight arrows have narrower heads made for penetrating chain and platemail armor.

    Am I correct in remembering that all the drow in the original modules (G3, D1-3) carried only 10 bolts in their bolt cases for use in their hand crossbows?

    SirXaris
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:52 pm  

    Standard drow warriors do carry ten bolts. Thinking of how drow do not prefer to be weighed down with anything, that makes sense. If a drow (or anybody) needs more than ten rounds of firing short range hand crossbow bolts, well, things are probably way out of the bounds of what a party of drow scouts or guards would be expected to deal with. When drow (or anybody) go to war though, you can bet that they carry more than 10 bolts. In a small bolt case at the waist, held bandolier style, or five strapped to each thigh, ten hand crossbow bolts won't take up much space at all, so they could load up with in all of those ways- 4 bolt cases at the waist, 5 bolts on each thigh, and bandolier of 20 more, for a total of 70 bolts. Not that they couldn't show up with crates containing hundreds more if they planned to set up sniping positions or anything. Stores of such things are no doubt to be found in the clan strongholds in Erelhei-Cinlu. It is important to note that, for the drow at least, it is not about the quantity of the bolts, but the poison on them- drow warriors shouldn't need to carry more than a few dozen crossbow bolts because of the poison that they use on them.

    Bolt cases should be able to hold 20 bolts rather easily though. Crossbow bolt shafts are thicker, but the heads on them are not that much bigger, meaning that a shortened quiver should hold 20 bolts or 20 arrows. It is interesting that quivers hold 20 arrows and bolt cases hold 10 bolts, considering the Rates of Fire in 1E/2E. Bows fire two arrows per round and crossbows one bolt per round, meaning they get used up at the same time. Just saying. Wink

    As to arrows, they should take up roughly the same amount of space. The heads may differ a bit, but the fletchings do not, and any archer who is not an idiot will not cram as many arrows into a quiver as they can, as doing so will damage the arrows' fletchings.

    Also, flight arrows are classified as being lighter and made for hunting, while sheaf arrows are heavier and made for war. Sheaf arrows would include heavy broadhead (flesh-cutting) arrows and heavy bodkin (armor-piercing) arrows.

    The flight arrow is more of a "game thing" though, as most hunting arrows are heavy broadheads, because you don't want to just make a small hole in a deer, but have a broadhead rip through its vitals so that it bleeds out before it can run three miles and then die. Broadheads really are hunting arrows, but they find great use in war against lightly armored troops and horses, simply because of what they were designed to do. The only light hunting arrows are those used for killing small game, such as birds, squirrels, etc.
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total
    Paladin

    Joined: Sep 07, 2011
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    From: Houston Texas

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    Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:31 am  

    As an additional variant.. a particularlly devious DM might also supply differing arrows since the draw length for a halfling is not the same as a human, thus the length of the arrows and the draw of the bow can also differ.
    So as not to over complicate the game machanic, the damage would be constant, just some arrows would not work with some bows depending on who is imploying them.
    It would be a damn shame that the human archer of the group has to sell those +1 arrows because the draw is for a gnome.... hehhehehe Evil Grin
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