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    Canonfire :: View topic - Searching dice roll
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 1st Edition
    Searching dice roll
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 09, 2005
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    Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:07 pm  
    Searching dice roll

    Hi,

    Do official rules for hidden treasure search probability exist? If not, do you use some house rules for searching dice roll?

    The same about secret door? I know about elves' probability to find a secret door. What about other races?

    Thanks

    Vasiliy
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3776
    From: So. Cal

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    Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:53 am  

    The Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide do have indexes. Read the rulebooks...thoroughly...then ask questions. Teach a person to fish and all. Wink

    Note that the DMG index will list multiple page numbers in boldface and in regular type for many topics. If such is the case, "DMG page numbers are always listed first and in boldface. Page numbers for listings in the PHB are in regular type, and follow those in boldface (where simultaneous listings occur)."

    I'll start you off:

    DMG Index: Searching, Dungeon...........96

    That is all there is. Start there, and read a couple pages for your answers. Otherwise, a number of things are not so well delineated in AD&D 1E, so you will have to decide how to handle them, if your require more detail than is given. You can always post questions, and well thought out questions will be better received.

    Also, there is the Sage Advice Collection resource, which may prove useful to you: http://jgrimbert.free.fr/add2/advice/?order=id&debut=0
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:28 am  

    Cebrion wrote:
    The Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide do have indexes.


    I know how to search info in books.

    There are nothing in AD&D 1st edition PHB and DMG about concrete numbers for search probability (except elf and secret door - 2 in 6 if searching and 1 in 6 if moving).

    My question was if some official rules for these number exist at all? May be in additional books or in Dragon magazine.

    And if not what numbers you guys usually use in your games.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 22, 2012
    Posts: 157
    From: luseland, sask

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    Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:00 am  

    i am pretty sure secret doors are 1 in 6 or at least thats what i use for non-elven characters.

    and mister cebrion... that link is.... FREAKIN AWSOME!!!!!!!! There has been lots of reference to skip williams and the sage advice column but never before have i seen this beauty. Bookmarked and printed. yipee-ki-yay mofos!!!!!!


    on second thought not printed. STill awsome though Happy
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:15 am  

    mcneilk wrote:

    and mister cebrion... that link is.... FREAKIN AWSOME!!!!!!!!


    Good link. But I found nothing about search probability numbers.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:34 am  

    mcneilk wrote:
    i am pretty sure secret doors are 1 in 6 or at least thats what i use for non-elven characters.


    Thanks!

    What numbers do you use for searching hidden treasure?
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 22, 2012
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    From: luseland, sask

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    Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:14 pm  

    not sure what you mean by hidden treasure? Hidden under the mattress? When gaming we have had arguments about the search function. They want to say search and find everything. I ask for details but seldom get any. What i ended up doing was having the search take more time but give most hidden goodies.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:40 pm  

    mcneilk wrote:
    not sure what you mean by hidden treasure? Hidden under the mattress? When gaming we have had arguments about the search function. They want to say search and find everything. I ask for details but seldom get any. What i ended up doing was having the search take more time but give most hidden goodies.


    I mean a treasure which can be found, can be not, like a secret door.

    So, your PCs always will find hidden treasure if they spend enough time for searching?
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:03 pm  

    Vasiliy wrote:
    mcneilk wrote:
    not sure what you mean by hidden treasure? Hidden under the mattress? When gaming we have had arguments about the search function. They want to say search and find everything. I ask for details but seldom get any. What i ended up doing was having the search take more time but give most hidden goodies.


    I mean a treasure which can be found, can be not, like a secret door.

    So, your PCs always will find hidden treasure if they spend enough time for searching?


    When the adventure describes hidden treasure, like this...

    "...There are 200 platinum pieces in a rotten leather bag hidden in a secret compartment in the back of the throne, left there by the long-dead king..."

    ...I do two things. First, if any player specifically states that his PC searches the throne for secret compartments, I allow the treasure to be found, unless the adventure specifically states a chance for it to be found. Two, if any players state that they are searching the room in general, I allow them a 1 in 6 chance to find any hidden items. If there are more than one hidden items, I divide those between the PCs rolling a 1. If there are more hidden items than PCs successfully rolling a 1, I roll secretly to see which hidden items were found.

    SirXaris
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:11 am  

    Thanks!
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:21 am  

    Guidelines are given where I told you to look. Read the last paragraph of p.96 of the DMG, and the section immediately thereafter at the top left of p. 97. Note the following:
    Quote:
    ROOM- thoroughly searching after initial examination*: 1 turn

    * This assumes that, in fact, the area has items which can be checked for
    traps, examined, contents searched, hidden comportments looked for,
    and so on. If there are many containers and much furniture in the area,
    the time might actually be double that shown. If the place has nothing
    but some odds and ends, then a casual examination will discover all
    there is to know about the place (short of a check for secret doors) and a
    thorough search is contra-indicated.

    That is catch-all statement there. Not anyone can find traps for instance just because it is mentioned- a character still needs to have the ability to find traps, like a thief does, or a dwarf does so far as it concerns stonework traps. Things that are hidden need to be rolled for. Use the secret door roll for such well hidden things; if the PCs have the ability to find whatever the particular things might be. If a different roll applies instead, like a thief searching for taps or a dwarf examining stonework, obviously use that roll for them instead.

    P. 97 uses searching for secret doors as the example of searching for anything. Searching for most secret doors give odds on a d6, though as suggested you could turn that into odds on a d8 or even a d10 for expertly or masterfully crafted secret doors/compartments. The times given are for how long it takes to search so as to get one roll to find them. For things that are not so well hidden, you might given better odds on a d6 or larger die type; for example, elves and half-elves find things in a cluttered chamber on a 4-in-8; others on a 3-in-8. Did everyone fail? Not a problem! Spend that listed time searching again, and you get another roll to find what you are looking for! Given enough time, somebody will eventually find what is being sought (if it is there to be found at all).

    You might even allow somebody to rush a search, accomplishing it in much less time than listed, but being so hasty may reduce the odds to being on a d12 or even a d20. Other options include something like the following:

    "Many valuables line the river bottom here, spilled from boats that capsized before entering the cavern. These include a large number of coins and all sorts of mundane armor and weaponry. A character searching the river bottom has a 1% chance per hour of discovering one of the following items: plate mail +2, shield +2, shield +3, longsword + 1, or spear +3."

    The point is, there are no hard and fast rules to cover everything. Much of it is left up to you, the DM, to decide. Look at how similar things are handled, and either use what is there or modify it to suit your purpose/circumstances. AD&D 1E is not like many other later game systems in that it really doesn't cover a lot things later game systems do (due to them having the benefit of hindsight in most cases).
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:18 am  
    Time

    I think I would let my characters find hidden treasure only when they specifically said they were looking for it...which increased the chance for wandering monsters since searching takes a turn. So yeah, my players could search for hidden treasure in every room but they would figure out that they were going to encounter a lot more monsters that way.
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