Wow, I really like the old modules. I like the fact that in U3 there is a guy from the City of Monmurg. I like the fact that in the "Temple of Elemental Evil" there are NPC's that are agents of various foreign powers. "The Cult of the Reptile God" has such an earthy Greyhawk feel to it that I can almost smell the fields and taste the cheese (play the module and you'll understand what I mean). The old modules give us not only a good time, but a hint of the wider world out there.
I think that one of the best avenues for a revitalization of WoG would be some well designed modules. I would assume (I know, I know) that some of the creative folks/players out there could design an adventure and have somebody publish it. It would be a nice if the powers that be would utilize us as a resource. If WotC came to you and said, "Hey you, yes you! Design me a module and you get your name on it and $50.00 for the work." Would you try to design an adventure? I'm not trying to make an official poll or anything, I just wanted to see what options we as players and consumers have in our arsenal.
wow... 50 dollars is way below scale for a work of a modules length... and then you have to consider all the abuse that you will get from at least half the greyhawk comunity for having the timerity to dare work on something associated with THIER game world... but taken all together... sure if WotC asked me to write them a greyhawk module for 50 dollars I would do it... I would have to lie to my wife and tell her I was getting payed more though...
Yes, the old modues tend to be much more interesting and better written. With regards to information, they always had some hidden tidbits for the DM, links to the World of Greyhawk(even if they were very minor), and enough info on the area without including a detailed dissertation. Basically it was enough to whet the appetite of any DM and encourage them to expand on what they wanted to in their own way. It really is these simple things that bring an adventure to life.
Some of the newer modules give ideas for further adventures, but even the generic WOTC adventures, which supposedly take place in the default setting of Greyhawk, fail to give even the slightest link to the World of Greyhawk. Sometimes its nice to know where you as a DM are sending a party of adventurers. And half the fun is creating a reason and a way for them to go there.
Check out svgames.com for more of the old stuff.
---Cebrion _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I agree, the old modules are among the best. I have enjoyed many of the works published since EGG (he remains one of my favorites), and they have their merits (TEE and RTEE are great, as is the bound Spider Queen series). But what was it about the original ones? Not some esoteric discussion, but the nuts and bolts.
I think one element is that they were short. I have enjoyed running a multiyear campaign, involving long enthralling adventures. But it was great to sit down in one session, play through the whole thing, have time for combat, and get treasure and xp at the end of the night with everyone shaking hands over a job well done. This is one of my failings in my own adventures, and I think in some of the Dungeon adventures (dont get me wrong, I have high praise for Dungeon).
What else is there? The hint of Greyhawk? Sometimes, though in B1 & 2 (mentioned in some other recent post) I found none? Thoughts?
I already do in Living Greyhawk and that's about the usual rate for an LG module. :) The only difference is the majority of the mods don't get sold in shops.
Stuart
DwarffromNyrond wrote:
If WotC came to you and said, "Hey you, yes you! Design me a module and you get your name on it and $50.00 for the work." Would you try to design an adventure?
Admittedly $50.00 is cheap and I could deal with the abuse, but wouldn't it be nice to have a couple of nice modules on the shelf? No offence meant to folks who publish the current material, but as it was said earlier, the modules really don't give you the feel that they are in the default setting. I'm just some shmoe that would be happy with a few good adventures.
Packin the pack mule,
Dwarf from Nyrond
PS- Just a nice lvl 1-3 module to get folks started would be of great value to our community
The old modules tended to be very specifically encounter based. You go here, met him and fight.
The new modules tend to set out situations. You are in this area, this is what he has in mind, what exactly happens is up to you and the DM.
The earlier modules were more games in a Monopoly sense. There was no defined end of the game, like in Monopoly, but there was a definable pattern to the play nonetheless that led to the end.
The new modules are to the old modules like the old modules were to Monopoly. The old modules and Monopoly were both gamish in a recognizable way but were otherwise totally different. The new modules and the old modules are both roleplaying but are otherwise very different.
Just as roleplaying might be said to be "harder" to learn and play than Monopoly, I think newer modules are "harder" to grasp and play than the old style modules.
This doesn't make one better or worse but just different, I think.
There has been an evolution in how the game is presented, leaving rules aside. I've heard the argument that this process continues and that LARPs are the next evolution. I personally do not believe that but some people do. Others say online gaming, as resources to support it grow, is the next evolution. I'm not so sure about that either.
I think it may be a pendulum kind of thing. We've seen very structured encounter based adventures and very amorphous setting based adventures. Maybe there is a happy medium. Attempts to blend the two, however, have been unimpressive IMO - Slavers, Rary the Traitor etc.
When the older modules do better in the Top 30 Dungeon poll, I think it is because the hobby is greying and because the older adventures were more proto-typically gamish than later setting or story based modules. This gamishness is more immediately memorable because it is more definable, individually and between individuals who have played the same adventure - opinions of a module's strength is reinforced by a community experience that newer style modules do not reproduce as well because they are, by design, more idyosyncratic.
I used to read Roger Zelazny a lot. One of the remarkable qualities of his work was an implied depth in the characters. In one book the protagonist had just returned from the birthday of a friend's child (or something like that). It was utterly irrelevant to the story, but gave the sense that he was a real person doing real things. A single sentence achieved what takes many authors a page or more.
Similarly, having an NPC hail from Monmurg (though the fact may be irrelevant) gives the impression that he is a well-developed character with a meaningful background. Both the T and U series (ToEE and Saltmarsh) did this brilliantly.
I've managed to do the same thing (when I'm at my best) by having names ready for any and all NPCs that the players encounter.
It's the little things that go the farthest.
Jack
PS names come with a risk. Players will also assume that anyone with a name is important to the plot -- I had a group spend most of an hour following the janitor around in a Call of Cthulhu game one night :)
I get bored with the old vs. new thing and comparing anything in D&D to Monopoly would seem to me that one has completely missed the point of the game. Modules in general are created so others do not have to. Creating adventures take much time and effort let alone creating a world. I am working on a campaign that has taken me two years so far and I am still not done.
To my point. The modules are blueprints, if you feel it is just leading you by the nose change it. If you feel that it is not well written then add to it. They are, as I have said in two other posts, just guidelines, ideas to work with so you do not have to come up with them yourself.
In TEE I added NPCs that both helped and hindered the party as they where supporters of other interests trying to find out what was going on with the Temple and I added a side adventure to put a twist in the story. In RtTEE some of the things that I had done in the earlier version were already done so I added moral dilemmas and twists to the middle part because it seemed too much of a crawl to me.
It is a shame that the work put in to module or campaign writing is not always well respected. I note with interest comments I hear from others when they say they could write a better one and either they do not or say " wow, this is really time consuming." It definitely is a labour of love.
I also believe that WOTC bashing is, well, like feeding kobolds to sharks, fun but way too easy. They, WOTC, are a part of a large corporation who's mandate is to make money for its shareholders and they will do what they believe will do that best. It will be up to us to keep Greyhawk alive.
When I bought my first D&D game and module the 1983 Greyhawk would not be published for another 3 years. Many of the earlier modules were later placed in Greyhawk or so it seemed because we played them without much context until then. We had to create context.
When the ‘83 version came out I changed it to fit my ideas of what was going in the world and I have changed the latest version to continue to fit my own ideas. So there is no old or new there is just my interpretations of it.
As there are those who says that FR is better than Greyhawk and soon those who will says that Eberron (which reminds me of early Blackmoor modules) is better, I say that there is no right or better, there is only the expression of the greatest most imaginative game every developed. I just happen to prefer the Greyhawk and I consider other worlds satellite planes of it
And before I get off my soapbox I would find it much more interesting discussing the issues around poison and alignment, what NPC one uses, how did you play that module in Greyhawk or here is how I see Gran March among other ideas not which or why something is better than something else. I believe this is the way we will keep Greyhawk alive.
And that is my Hotel on Baltic Place (2 cent). _________________ "Its a dangerous business going out your front door." JRR Tolkien
Unless you are a Greyhawk Heretic.
At the risk of sounding like a S&S sycophant, I think that the most recent module that I have seen that captures the feel of the old skool adventures is The Crucible of Freya. Others here have remarked upon it as well. It is just simply well put together.
One of the great things about this low-level adventure is the hook- the adventure finds the characters rather than the other way around. The adventurers are in a small village when event "X" occurs to lauch the whole thing. There is a bit of mystery and some unexpeted adversaries to deal with along the way. The adventure can be played in one or two sessions(more if you really enjoy interacting with the npc's). It is a simple advventure, but it is a lot more than a rat maze with a piece of cheese at the end. Its got the mojo.
Anybody else have any good recommendations on adventures of any level?
---Cebrion _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
but wouldn't it be nice to have a couple of nice modules on the shelf? No offence meant to folks who publish the current material, but as it was said earlier, the modules really don't give you the feel that they are in the default setting. I'm just some shmoe that would be happy with a few good adventures. 
